BSI Problems?

[The Know 221]

Some people just dont have a clue do they, (SCB). Do you think sgp will standstill just for british speedway, NO. Also if you think most riders buy anything your wrong as they buy bugger all for speedway as its all free.

[iris123 20,988]

But he also shows(like some footballers) that give sportsmen more money and they will want to spend it.So giving speedway riders more won't neccesarily make them sit at home in Britain counting the dosh

[SCB 0]

They might not pay for there bikes but THEY have gt them bieks through sponsorship, why should they then use them for BSI's sake?

 

I don't expect BSI to stand still for league racing (read this thread).

 

I just know that the GP's WONT have full time riders. Lets look at it another way, the top riders earn 40k in Sweden, 40k in Poland and 40k in the UK (I don't know what) and win every GP and get another 30k.

 

So for the GP's to be full time they have to pay the rider that extra 120k they earn in the 3 leagues, can you reallu see BSI paying the riders that extra 120k? Thats a pay rise for THE top rider (assuming he wins every GP) of over 500% and the rider lower down will need a bigger pay rise to cover there league wages loss.

 

The riders get there sponsored free bikes whether they're in the GP or not so they will be saying, "we'll stick to league racing and earn 120k and no ride in the GP's" ahead of, "we'll ride int he GP's for 40k and somebikes".

 

What would you chose? World Champion and 30k OR best non-GP rider and 120k? That assuming BSI are willing to give the rider a pay increae of between 500 and 600%!!!!!

Edited September 9, 2004 by SCB

[Kevin Meynell 2]

well if they were paid more money they would not have to ride elsewhere!

 

And where is this money supposed to come from? The SGP is nowhere near in the same league as F1.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

So for the GP's to be full time they have to pay the rider that extra 120k they earn in the 3 leagues, can you reallu see BSI paying the riders that extra 120k? What would you chose?

 

Quite right. I'm quite convinced that if it came down to straight choice between the SGP and the national leagues, the riders would choose the national leagues hands down.

 

The SGP is light years away from being a full-time circus.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

All world championship events bike or car have been run under the FIMs control and always will be.

 

Well, speedway very nearly wasn't run by the FIM in the past, and once the speedway authorities finally wake-up, might not be in the future.

 

ARiders will always put this first above any domestic racing as its the only way to become world champion.

 

Professional riders fundamentally need to earn a living, and have only ever participated in the generally poorly-paying World Championship whilst they knew they could make that living elsewhere (i.e. in the national leagues). If they had to decide between the SGP and the national leagues now, they would undoubtedly have to opt for the latter option.

 

In the not to distant future SGP will become very much like moto gp where contracted riders only race in this event.

 

Again, where is the money going to come from to finance this? The projected expansion of the SGP has failed to materialise, and it's only a matter of time before the existing GP organisers get tired of making losses to enrich BSI.

[fatface 2,554]

Sweden and Denmark have developed youngsters without BSI money. Why can't we?

 

That's not the issue at all. The national federations should never have given away the rights (and therefore potential profits) to a commercial company with no interests in domestic speedway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kevin, we all know you like to slice and dice. But at least keep it in context.

 

I was replying to someone who suggested that BSIs profits go into developing youth. I'm saying that as a private company we cannot expect them to do that. And if we (Britain) want quality youngsters coming through we are going to have to get our hands dirty and do it ourselves. Nothing more nothing less.

Edited September 10, 2004 by falcace

[Kevin Meynell 2]

And if we (Britain) want quality youngsters coming through we are going to have to get our hands dirty and do it ourselves.

 

And where will BSI get the next generation of riders for the SGP?

[SCB 0]

And where will BSI get the next generation of riders for the SGP?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sweden Denamrk and Poland?

 

There will always be 24 (or 16) riders who are better than the rest. If every speedway rider riding now retired tommorow and there were no speedway riders, if I and 15 other on this forum were to take up speedway we could be the GP riders. So as long as there 16 people with speedway bikes there will be speedway GP's.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

Sweden Denamrk and Poland?

 

I think you're missing my point. Why should BSI expect to benefit from the development programmes of any country, whilst putting nothing back themselves? For that matter, why should any country bother to develop riders when they can be used by the SGP without any compensation (be that financial or otherwise)?

Edited September 10, 2004 by Kevin Meynell

[Liesdale 0]

Sweden Denamrk and Poland?

 

I think you're missing my point. Why should BSI expect to benefit from the development programmes of any country, whilst putting nothing back themselves? For that matter, why should any country bother to develop riders when they can be used by the SGP without any compensation (be that financial or otherwise)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You make soem very interesting points Kevin, but what are the British, Swedish, Polish authorities going to do about it?

[Rico 210]

And where will BSI get the next generation of riders for the SGP?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've tried biting my tongue on this particular topic, but now I've failed.

 

Kevin, your point above I have read as being directly related to Britain - we don't hear of such arguments coming from the other big speedway nations - correct me if I'm wrong on that front.

 

I wouldn't say Britain exactly have a conveyor belt of riders coming through at the moment in the GPs - other than Loram winning in 2000, no rider has finished in the top 3 of the GP series since its inception in 1995.

 

It's a bit of a chicken and the egg argument going on here and I'd have to agree that we should be looking to get our own house in order first. I'm sure the money coming in from Sky would outweigh the potential profit share from 'owning' the world championship rights.

 

The Speedway Academy will hopefully see some new riders, firstly ready for the Elite League and secondly, if they harbour the ambition to become World Champion stepping up to the GP Series.

 

Imagine the scenario in the EL at the moment if teams were told to build with one foreigner as per Polish rules at the moment. The standard would drop dramatically. However when you look at the number of riders coming through the ranks in Poland then you can see the benfit of such a move - we just don't have the riders at the moment to fill our own top flight, come to think of it there are probably too many foreigners filling up our PL teams, which should be the breeding ground of British riders capable of moving up to the EL.

 

Sorry I've probably gone off on a huge tangent here - but I personally don't see BSI and the GP series as the big baddies they are often made out to be.

 

Rico

[Kevin Meynell 2]

Rico,

 

Kevin, your point above I have read as being directly related to Britain

 

There are quite a few issues here, so I'll try and disentangle them ;-) In many respects, my arguments equally apply to Poland and Sweden (not to mention other countries), but it's Britain that happens to be most affected by the SGP. As you'll know from the mailing list, I'm far from being a little Englander, but equally Britain is one of the major income generators in world speedway, yet has in effect been rolled-over by those with little or no financial stake in the sport.

 

You don't really hear objections from Poland and Sweden about the SGP because through virtue of historical accident, their leagues do not directly clash with the GPs. However, if the GP ever expands further, it will certainly start to cause problems with the Polish League because they will have to start scheduling fixtures on GP reserve days.

 

I also think that many countries have not yet woken-up to the real nature of the SGP. Once they realise how much money BSI is making, and how they are getting next to nothing despite taking nearly all the financial risk, then things may start changing. Indeed, the fact that the SGP has not expanded beyond a few countries is possibly an indication that the number of mugs are running out.

 

That is not to say that I have anything against BSI. They spotted an opportunity, the FIM agreed to the terms, and they went out and raised a decent amount of television and sponsorship money. Fair play to them, and who can blame them for trying to make as much money as possible.

 

However, you have to ask whether all this is a good deal for the sport. In the past, the profits from World Finals were usually shared by the tracks in the staging country, but now they're simply going to a private company. In effect, GBP 0.5 million is being lost to the sport each year.

 

Now I would take the point that much of this is new money that has been generated through the efforts of BSI, but one has to question why the likes of the BSPA, SVEMO and the PZM couldn't have formed a promotional company and done exactly the same?

 

The next problem is the amount of disruption that the SGP causes to the British leagues. With the agreement of the FIM, they are able to schedule GPs on prime domestic race nights, use any riders they wish, and re-arrange fixtures without any concern for anything else. That might be all well and good if domestic speedway was compensated in some manner, or if the SGP demonstrably brought new fans and/or money into local tracks, but I don't think that's the case at all. I do think the SGP possibly interests former fans of the sport who can watch it all on Sky, but attendances have arguably not increased in Britain as a result, and certainly not to the extent that it compensates for all the disruption.

 

Now that we've established that the SGP's benefit to domestic speedway is marginal at best, that raises the question of use of rider assets. The SGP is currently able to take the pick of the riders from the domestic leagues, regardless of whether those leagues need them. Yet it is precisely those leagues that bear the cost of developing these riders. The argument has nothing to do with which country has the best development programmes, but the fact that the SGP can use other organisations' assets without compensation. The SGP could not continue to exist without the domestic leagues, yet it simultaneously undermines those leagues (mostly the British leagues).

 

We now come to the question of how good BSI actually are at promoting the SGP. I personally feel they made a decent enough start in the first three years after obtaining the rights, but I don't think they've done anything great since then. They have established 2 or 3 'glamour' GPs which draw crowds on par with about 10-15 years ago, but the other GPs do little better than before BSI came along. They've also had a number of very poorly-organised events (including the SWC), which I think is unacceptable for a professional events company that can call on eight staff plus local organisers. In addition, the much-vaunted expansion programme has yet to happen (and in fact we're perhaps even likely to see a reduction in events at lower-key venues), whilst the levels of prize money have remained static which makes a full-time series even less likely.

 

In conclusion, I think you've got to separate the issues of whether BSI do a good job or not, and the consequences of their involvement in speedway as a whole. I personally do not believe the FIM has done the sport any favours by giving a 20-year contract to a commercial company with no domestic speedway interests.

 

I'm sure the money coming in from Sky would outweigh the potential profit share from 'owning' the world championship rights.

 

Why is it a mutually exclusive thing? Can't the BSPA get their own Sky deal without supporting BSI and the SGP? [bTW - this is a rhetorical question as I already know the answer ;-)]

 

Imagine the scenario in the EL at the moment if teams were told to build with one foreigner as per Polish rules at the moment.

 

Well if the Polish Leagues don't drop the restrictions on EU riders next season, the European Commission will be receiving a letter. Poland can't expect to have the benefits of EU membership without fulfilling their obligations as well. I see the point of developing your own riders, but sport can't exist above the laws that everyone else has to follow.

Edited September 10, 2004 by Kevin Meynell

[The Know 221]

There seems to be one major problem with this you cannot have the BSPA or any other federation taking over the sgp rights as there all bent. Do you think the likes of TR-MF and so on would not keep all the money. The bsi are independant from all other speedway and that is how it shoud be.

[Rico 210]

No time for a full reply to your post Kevin - got to make my way to Cowley to see the big match

 

I agree with a few of your points, especially in relation to the promotional issue, however others I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on. It's an emotive issue, some are pro-SGP and others aren't.

 

Looks like the national federations missed the boat, especially when it came to the renewing of the contract - that was the point they could have stepped in, but in reality could you really see that happening? I wouldn't be surprised if the time and effort of staging some of the recent world finals was worth the small gain to be made, especially when you then start dividing that small sum up around the tracks. Then again, would the promoters use the money they did receive to enhance the sport at grass-roots level, no they'd have just paid the money out to Rider X to entice him to ride for them the following season.

 

I am guessing that none of the fee paid (I assume that was part of the contract) to the FIM gets filtered through to the national federations as things stand at present (genuine question)

 

I personally don't think we'll ever see a full-time series, it will remain merely a series of competition, whether that takes in countries outside of the SGPs present incumbents is another matter entirely.

 

As for your point about the Polish league, on a general principle I agree, however without opening up a huge political debate there appear to be countries who are able to enforce their rules (noticed you are only allowed to take bring back 200 cigarettes from the Czech Republic for example - not sure who wanted that). Given the performances of the young poles in the SWC I'd say they'll be happy to get away with that one as long as they can.

 

Must run

 

Rico