Leliwa 0 Posted September 12, 2005 Sweet Jesus, Mateusz, from you report it sounds as you just barely escaped in one piece from Tarnow. Funny, Police escort is a standard procedure no matter were you go in Poland, be it Wroclaw, Bydgoszcz or Torun. Were you chaised by some chooligans? As for police in your sector, we both know why they came in, I was sitting right next to your sector, and I had a pretty good view. I admit that atmosphere got spoiled after heat 10 incident and this is too bad. As for Jacek – Pepe incident, I was sure about Jacek’s fault when seeing it live. Today morning I watch the video few times and now I have doubts, maybe because of camera angle, I do not know. One think is for certain, it was unsportsmanlike riding on his part, and even people in Tarnow admit it. However, lets not make him into such evil, I mean there are plenty of examples that even the best ride like that (Crump almost putting Hampel on boards incident in GP couple of months ago). Finally, such talk on part of Bydgoszcz management should not take place in my opinion. It sounds like they are preparing for war. Many times in such situations innocent suffer, and I would like both teams to complete their seasons unscratched. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mateusz 0 Posted September 12, 2005 (edited) Sweet Jesus, Mateusz, from you report it sounds as you just barely escaped in one piece from Tarnow. Funny, Police escort is a standard procedure no matter were you go in Poland, be it Wroclaw, Bydgoszcz or Torun. Were you chaised by some chooligans? Well, I've never been escorted by the police, maybe because I don't travel much. However, it's not such a standard procedure. For example in Torun the police usually escape quickly to avoid conflict situations.. And in Gdansk you have only security guards which are members of hools groups in majority I'd rather say that our coach might not come back in piece, not we as people. We had a very bad experience last time in Tarnow on a railway station and I don't think that some groups of "fans" (?) that gathered around the cage after the match had a friendly attitude... And my friend's dad that came to Tarnow yesterday with his wife was beaten by some squirts only because of the fact he didn't want give them his scarf. All in all I must say that the police worked very well yesterday and thanks to that our coach with big labels "PKS Bydgoszcz" came back with all glasses unbroken. As for police in your sector, we both know why they came in, I was sitting right next to your sector, and I had a pretty good view. I admit that atmosphere got spoiled after heat 10 incident and this is too bad. You're right, I don't disagree with you in this point. As for Jacek – Pepe incident, I was sure about Jacek’s fault when seeing it live. Today morning I watch the video few times and now I have doubts, maybe because of camera angle, I do not know. One think is for certain, it was unsportsmanlike riding on his part, and even people in Tarnow admit it. However, lets not make him into such evil, I mean there are plenty of examples that even the best ride like that (Crump almost putting Hampel on boards incident in GP couple of months ago). From the cage we had a pretty good view at this accident. Today I watched a short cut downloaded from the internet and I stay with my opinion. So do many people. And I don't make Jacek such evil. He rode totally recklessly and brutally. I only expected a deserved punishment for him - an exclusion. Just a justice that hasn't come... Looks like Wojaczek excluded PePe only for riding on the outside. And such things like "f..k you" gesture shown by one of an ambulance crew only negatively warmed the atmosphere. Finally, such talk on part of Bydgoszcz management should not take place in my opinion. It sounds like they are preparing for war. Many times in such situations innocent suffer, and I would like both teams to complete their seasons unscratched. Believe me - they are very angry now. I also hope that both teams will finish this season without any victims but you can forget about fair-play riding in Bydgoszcz. I don't mean that they're gonna fence each other but I wouldn't expect leaving any room near the fence by Bydgoszcz riders. Edited September 12, 2005 by Mateusz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Subedei 0 Posted September 12, 2005 Well, looks like things are at boiling point over in Poland at the minute. Let's hope they cool down a little between now and the second leg. And this afternoon a weakened Torun team got a thumping at the hands of Czestochowa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rico 210 Posted September 12, 2005 heat 10: http://www.ztpnet.pl/~mch/foto/10_bieg.mpg - Protasiewicz (yellow) excluded.heat 13: http://www.ztpnet.pl/~mch/video/13_bieg.mpg heat 15: http://www.ztpnet.pl/~mch/video/15_bieg.mpg - Protasiewicz (yellow) excluded once again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Have tried from 2 different pcs to access these links and I just get "Windows Media player has experienced a problem and must close." Any suggestions ? Rico Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Subedei 0 Posted September 12, 2005 (edited) I had a problem with Hts 10 and 15, but Ht 13 was okay. Edit: And now Ht 10 works, sort of. Looks like Pepe is taking the "Tomasz Gollob" line down the back straight and is slightly ahead of Jacek Gollob when they clash. Edited September 12, 2005 by Subedei Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekker 239 Posted September 12, 2005 (edited) Real Player works and Heat 10 was a bit of a howler, Pepe had the run aroung Gollob just went out the fence and clipped Pepe as he went past. Sums up Jacek from what ive seen on polish TV that he doesnt have that much ability but doesnt mind taking a bad crash for the team. Heat 15 was correct decision as Pepe was beat and just played for the dive, he could have kept the bike out of the fence if he tried. However Heat 10 was bad, but that was the kind of decision Bydgoszcz used to get regularily 5 or 10 years ago from what i remember of the TV matchs, wonder why? Edited September 12, 2005 by Dekker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryW 1,178 Posted September 12, 2005 I had problems running the videos direct from the site, but saving them to disk worked fine. Maybe I'm a little biased, but heat 10 definitely looks like Jacek's fault to me even with the dodgy camera angle. I agree that heat 15 was definitely PePe's own fault. I would disagree with Dekker's suggestion that he "played for the dive" though. Looked like he was forced to go wide so tried to run right to the fence for some extra drive and just lost control and had to bail out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Subedei 0 Posted September 12, 2005 Okay, have seen Ht 15 now and Pepe might've had a case if he'd gone straight down. But it looked like a perfectly fair move from TG. I don't think Pepe went for a dive. I can't imagine he thought Gollob would've been excluded. Especially not after Ht 10. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mateusz 0 Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) Please check out how that awful crash in the heat 10 looked from our point of view in the cage: J.Gollob v PePe crash - heat 10 ..and look at that water at the track / EDIT: J.Gollob v PePe crash - heat 10 (faster download version) Edited September 14, 2005 by Mateusz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mateusz 0 Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) Wladyslaw Gollob, Gollob bros' father said today on Tarnow's "Radio Maks": "Protasiewicz maliciously crushed Jacek!" I've always known that Mr.Wladyslaw is an idiot but not such an idiot... Edited September 13, 2005 by Mateusz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bavarian 769 Posted September 13, 2005 Honestly I can't understand why the Bydgoszcz team manager did not protest and defend his rider against the harsh exclusion after the crash with Jacek Gollob. It was obvious that none but Jacek was to blame for the two riders coming down in that situation. PePe was on the outside and had already gone past Jacek, when Jacek moved out trying to block PePe. Where was PePe supposed to go, squeezed in between Jacek and the fence. I mean Gollob could have gone to the inside there was the whole width of the track available for him but PePe could go nowhere. Jacek's move caused the accident and this was pretty obvious to everyone who saw it. How can the referee make such a diabolical decision is really beyond me. He can't be so stupid, can he? Maybe he was just not brave enough to exclude a home rider or even worse, he might have played his part in the home team's strategy to win this match at all cost. I wouldn't blame anybody more than the referee. If a rider makes such a move as Jacek Gollob did, he should be rightly excluded, but to make a decision like this referee did, is the real scandal. I hope the PZM does take a closer look at what happened here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lawrence 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Jacek's move caused the accident and this was pretty obvious to everyone who saw it. It was - but only for Bydgoszcz`s fans and for 99% of polish People watching this match live on TV. And 4 some of Tarnow`s fans [but it was about 5% maybe] Rest of Tarnow`s fans [more than 20 000 at the stadium] were absolutely sure that it was Pepe`s fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mateusz 0 Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) And lots of them are still sure about that... Edited September 14, 2005 by Mateusz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leliwa 0 Posted September 14, 2005 ...How can the referee make such a diabolical decision is really beyond me. He can't be so stupid, can he? Maybe he was just not brave enough to exclude a home rider or even worse, he might have played his part in the home team's strategy to win this match at all cost. Yah, right. Don't you think you going a little bit too far here? A lot can be said of the ref but I refuse to believe that any such scam could take place. He just made a mistake, one of many this season, but it did not decide the outcome of the whole match. I agree that Bydgoszcz could have got few more points from Pepe there, but the outcome still would be the same, around 18-20 point difference. Quite frankly, I’m fearing a little bit for our young riders Marcin and Janusz. From what I hear we can expect really hard riding in Bydgoszcz. It is possible that one rider who is in the center of attention, Jacek Gollob, wont be ridding as they suspect he fractured the collar bone during the crash. With him missing there would be an additional pressure put on them. I would rather loose the gold than see something happen to our home boys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazzman 72 Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) My Polish friends, Will this make Polonia fans fall out of friendship with Tomasz Gollob? What was the crowd attendance there? 25/09 Looks like its going to be rather tasty. But we could only get this passion in Poland. Edited September 14, 2005 by Hazzman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
