iris123 21,056 Posted January 29, 2006 As i said on the Louis Lawson thread i have been going through some old programmes and came across one from 1951.Birmingham vs U.S.A touring side.According to the programme this was the side based at Shelbourne Park.While unbeaten in Ireland for a couple of months they got thrashed by the "Brummies" including Graham Warren,Eric Boothroyd,Ron Mountford and Alan Hunt 73-35. The side was : Nick Nicolaides Royal Carroll Ernie Roccio Jimmy Gibb(replaced by Geoff Pymar) Don Hawley Johnnie Roccio Lyoyd Campbell Johnnie Gibson Does anyone have info on how these guys got on in their careers(apart from Ernie Roccio and Jimmy Gibb,of course).Were they signed up by any British Teams?What was the score from the return match the next day or other reults from this seasons USA meetings? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,158 Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) From Stenner's 1952 Annual: "It was a happier story at Shelbourne [happier than Chapelizod]. The club tried the daring experiment of bringing to Dublin a team of riders from California to form the Shelbourne 'Tigers' and the gamble came off. At Dublin those 'Tigers' assisted by Wimbledon American Ernie Roccio and side-kick Jimmy Gibb built up an imposing record, beating Wimbledon (twice), Belle Vue, West Ham, Harringay and Bristol. "The only club loss was to Coventry who were defeated in a subsequent return. England's 'C' team, a Scottish selection and Norway also went down at Shelbourne to the Americans, who, however, could not hold Bruce Abernethy's fiery New Zealanders. "Away the 'Tigers' failed, sometimes miserably, but even so attracted some of the biggest gates of the British Division II season. A trip to Scandinavia brought better results - three wins by 56-28, 43-40, 43-40 over various Swedish combinations and two defeats, by ten points at Malmo and two points at Oslo. "Beside Ernie Roccio the Americans had a stand out in Nick Nicolaides. Johnny Roccio and Royal Carroll improved so much in the autumn that I think a further season here would put them in the top class..." Edited January 29, 2006 by norbold Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,056 Posted January 29, 2006 Thanks Norbold.Very quick.Funnily enough the "Brummies" were off on tour of Sweden and a meeting in Oslo after the return in Dublin.Must have been a regular thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest speedyguy Posted January 29, 2006 As i said on the Louis Lawson thread i have been going through some old programmes and came across one from 1951.Birmingham vs U.S.A touring side.According to the programme this was the side based at Shelbourne Park.While unbeaten in Ireland for a couple of months they got thrashed by the "Brummies" including Graham Warren,Eric Boothroyd,Ron Mountford and Alan Hunt 73-35.The side was : Nick Nicolaides Royal Carroll Ernie Roccio Jimmy Gibb(replaced by Geoff Pymar) Don Hawley Johnnie Roccio Lyoyd Campbell Johnnie Gibson Does anyone have info on how these guys got on in their careers(apart from Ernie Roccio and Jimmy Gibb,of course).Were they signed up by any British Teams?What was the score from the return match the next day or other reults from this seasons USA meetings? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jimmy Gibb was of course really a Canadian. He rode West Ham 1938 and 1939 and Wimbledon 1949 and 1951. Most of his career from around 1933 to 1952 was in the USA and Australia. Ernie Roccio rode for Wimbledon in the early 1950s but was killed at West Ham in 1952. None of the other Americans rode for a British team, although in the mid-1950s there was talk of Don Hawley riding for Coventry but nothing happened. The team mentioned above started their British season with Manuel Trujillo included, but he went home in May 1951 after being refused permission to ride in the world championship qualifying rounds. He was a really spectacular legtrailer and pre-war was around Wimbledon but never actually rode in the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,056 Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Was that it for these guys then.Never to be heard of again?It's hard to imagine in todays speedway world,some of these guys would have been snapped up in no time given the results they had.I'm assuming they didn't come back to Dublin the next year,so who was riding at Shelbourne Park in 1952? Interesting bit in the programme: "Johnnie Gibson has earned the unenviable nickname of "crashwall" by his habit of hitting the safety fence."He was released from Army service to ride for the team. Nick Nicolaides,24 year old University student,saw war service in Japan and China.Had his first ride on a track prepared by one of his Army unit. Don Hawley was nicknamed "Herc" for his weight-lifting abilities. Edited January 31, 2006 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,158 Posted January 31, 2006 Stenner's to the rescue again, iris... "Speedway will not flourish in Dublin, it seems, until a place can be gained in one of the British Leagues....That is the lesson from season 1952, which was most disappointing to Dublin enthusiasts at Shelbourne, the one track operating, closed down in August, re-opening only to stage the Irish Championship on Oct 5. "Somehow or another last year's programme never seemed to 'click', though it was felt at the outset that the Tigers team in which the promising Irish novices rode with Geoff Mardon, Ronnie Moore, Cyril Brine and the late Ernie Roccio, would prove very popular.... "Fixtures staged were essentially challenge affairs and the absence of competition racing made it difficult to maintain enthusiasm. Again the weak riding of some of the visitors did not help. "A blow too was early injury to Irish hope, Des Monson, which kept him off for the rest of the year. Of the other locals, Don Perry especially, 'Ginger' O'Beirne and Mick Savage improved considerably. "Irish title, won by Ronnie Moore for the third year running drew a huge gate to prove that there is still a big speedway public..." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,056 Posted January 31, 2006 You've obviously got your house in order,Norbold.Wish i could find my stuff so quickly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest speedyguy Posted February 1, 2006 Was that it for these guys then.Never to be heard of again?It's hard to imagine in todays speedway world,some of these guys would have been snapped up in no time given the results they had.I'm assuming they didn't come back to Dublin the next year,so who was riding at Shelbourne Park in 1952?Interesting bit in the programme: "Johnnie Gibson has earned the unenviable nickname of "crashwall" by his habit of hitting the safety fence."He was released from Army service to ride for the team. Nick Nicolaides,24 year old University student,saw war service in Japan and China.Had his first ride on a track prepared by one of his Army unit. Don Hawley was nicknamed "Herc" for his weight-lifting abilities. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remember, these were all previously established riders on the USA's west coast. After their season here they went back to racing there. Many of them started racing as soon as WW2 ended when they came up against such established pre-war riders as Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Charles 'Pee Wee' Cullum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Knowle 51 Posted February 1, 2006 Ernie and Johnnie Roccio and Nick Nickolaides rode for Wimbledon at Bristol on 23/3/51 in a Festival of Britain Trophy match. I was there and have the programme.! Manuel Trujillo was still going strong a few years ago when he was featured in the Vintage Speedway Mag. He rode at Bristol for a U.S.A. touring team pre war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,056 Posted February 2, 2006 Ernie and Johnnie Roccio and Nick Nickolaides rode for Wimbledon at Bristol on 23/3/51 in a Festival of Britain Trophy match. I was there and have the programme.! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Any chance of putting the details of this meeting on here?Riders and points,maybe! Also does anyone know what was happening back in the states during the 50s?When did Lammy and the Milne bros finally call it a day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoMinuteWarning 69 Posted February 2, 2006 iris123, I have some data on the USA's matches and scorers, at Shelbourne and in the UK that season. It's not quite complete. It's a Works file, available as either a .wks or .xlr file - if you can read either of those, I could e-mail it to you - let me know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2ndBender 28 Posted February 3, 2006 Funnily enough the "Brummies" were off on tour of Sweden and a meeting in Oslo after the return in Dublin. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You don't happen to have the result and scorers of their match at Linkoping against Ostgota Kombination on 05.10.51, do you? It's a long shot, I know, but the forum has come up trumps for me in the past! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoMinuteWarning 69 Posted February 3, 2006 You don't happen to have the result and scorers of their match at Linkoping against Ostgota Kombination on 05.10.51, do you? It's a long shot, I know, but the forum has come up trumps for me in the past! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 2nd Bender, Birmingham lost 38-45. Dont have the Swedish scorers, so I don't know whether this is coming up trumps, but for the Brummies: Graham Warren 11, Eric Boothroyd 10, Alan Hunt 8, Ron Mountford 5, Jim Tolley 2, Cyril Page 1, Phil "Tiger" Hart 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2ndBender 28 Posted February 4, 2006 2nd Bender, Birmingham lost 38-45. Dont have the Swedish scorers, so I don't know whether this is coming up trumps, but for the Brummies: Graham Warren 11, Eric Boothroyd 10, Alan Hunt 8, Ron Mountford 5, Jim Tolley 2, Cyril Page 1, Phil "Tiger" Hart 1. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's a great help! Thanks very much, TwoMinuteWarning! If anyone else knows the Swedish scorers I'd be well pleased! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,056 Posted February 4, 2006 Depends on if Kevin Hammond got this book for xmas?And how comprehensive it is.For 45€ it should be pretty good! How about it,Kev? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
