Gb Bikes And Tuners

[21st century heathen 220]

It would take a better mechanical mind than mine to explain things properly but there's far more to it than simply having the best engine. There are any number of parts to a bike and they all need to work in harmony with the rider. Most people think Nicki is the best rider in the world right now, but that doesn't mean he could jump on Crump's bikes and win the next GP, or visa versa.

 

Speedway engines would generally, in my understanding, be de-tuned by the rider so that they don't just spin up. They need the right gear for the track conditions. Tyre pressures are important as are the electrics (some riders have trouble with the cut-outs or plugs) and of course the clutch. The list must just go on and on and a rider is going to have to try every combination of everything to find something that suits his style of riding as well as track conditions for any nuumber of size, shape and surface of track. The difference between winning and losing is minute so everything falling into place is vital. Obviously a rider needs to have talent, that goes almost without saying, but there's not that much to choose between the worlds best riders. The difference on any one day could simply be a riders stumbling across something that works.

 

As an example of that I spoke to one the Wolves riders recently after he had ridden well at Monmore. He told me he was riding a 'big track bike' on the day and it just worked. He could only shrug his shoulders as to why it worked, but it did!!

 

It's never going to be as simple as Scott, or whoever, walking into his local corner shop and saying "I'll have two good speedway bikes please".

 

Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

Edited July 15, 2008 by 21st century heathen

[spook 28]

Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

 

argh dont get me started on him!

 

yeah I fully agree that the Danes know how to do things............... but getting back to the point I was making...... the chances are that they didnt do it individually ..... Bjarne does not have performance like that in the league ..... and to some degree he doesnt have it in the GP either.......... the same could be said for NKI and Bjerre................... and we dont need to go through the somewhat ordinary names in the swedish team and their performances do we?

 

FSP

I take your point but we are not talking about mugs here......... Scott is a top line rider wherever he goes...... yes his gating and machinery has been found wanting at GP level in recent years but he is still top drawer.......... Bomber was top drawer last season ..... and Rico bizarrely cant make up his mind whether he is or isnt.......................... you cannot tell me that last night was not just about being not good enough and that machinery didnt play a large part in it? Yes I dont think they stood a chance of winning with Stead and Allen in the team (although i though Allen did himself proud) but we certainly should have been up there with the swedes

 

as Rune Holta has proven time and time again.... you do not have to be a great rider to do well..... but you do need stonking machinery!

[MARK246 243]

Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

 

Good post.

 

The strange thing to me is Scott ,Chris and in the past Lee, have all ridden on Ole Olsen prepared tracks.

Why is it a problem to set a bike up.

Scott Nicholls 60 GP's and every one starts like his first ever.

The Danes and the Swedes have the set up instantly, the British riders don't find it till race 15?

 

On to Thursday more of the same ? Don't the British talk to each other ? What is the point of the top three Brits being there if they can't (don't) help the less experienced riders ?

 

You are correct tunning engines is not the, b all and end all of bike preparation, communication and advice helps.

 

[speedy den boy 19]

I dont know who a couple of the posters in this thread are kidding but year on year now the Danes and the Poles prove that their engine tuning and bike setup has not been done individually.......... The Danes bikes were outrageous last night... they didnt do it from the gate half the time and instead we saw them overtaking by the time the 3rd bend came up even if they were off gate 3................ this is not just desire or talent.... this is 90% machinery

 

Kasprzak's future Polish team's aspirations would have taken a big dent this season as he quite obviously was not on the pace...... whether this undermines my argument or it simply means that either he or his mechanics didnt listen...i'm not sure ........ but the Poles are never caught napping in their own country

 

The tuning of our bikes and the general setup of them is a huge concern for me................ we had allsorts of things discussed by sky last night with the discussion finally turning to track temperature........ well hang on if we had so many Coventry 'specialists' in the team then surely they should have been ahead of the game there? ............ so how did the Swedes and the Danes figure it out? Was someone there with the necessary equipment to test such things?

 

If indeed as one of the posters suggest.... that Scott has one of the best tuners in the game then i'd suggest he is either being given shoddy work...... or that he needs to poach Greg's mechanics off him!

 

So this is two world cup events on the trot where the machinery has been well of the pace............ if thursday makes it three then it is finally time that the GB team manager's role is a little more than someone who keeps them sweet........ and that instead some involvement in the machinery takes place

 

 

 

 

I have a couple of questions........... Graham Jones was seen in the pits with Freddie Lindgren last night....... does that mean he is tuning his engines or just spannering?

and how many genuine world class tuners do we actually have?

 

GOOD post spook,i cant understand these other people who say the danes are used to slick tracks,EVERYONE was faster than us .You cant tell me Adrian Rymal as good as he is can come to coventry and be on the pace and we were NOT.AS soon as people come round and see a bit of sence and get people in the pits like Dave Jessup or Malc simmons over seeing things and the little details that help the team go forward.I say again peter johns does Adams engines just get him in to over see whats happening.

[Trees 2,814]

What was the track like when TeamGB did their practice, did they time their 4 laps, did they race one another? It was almost as if they didn't practice????

[f-s-p 832]

FSP

I take your point but we are not talking about mugs here......... Scott is a top line rider wherever he goes...... yes his gating and machinery has been found wanting at GP level in recent years but he is still top drawer.......... Bomber was top drawer last season ..... and Rico bizarrely cant make up his mind whether he is or isnt.......................... you cannot tell me that last night was not just about being not good enough and that machinery didnt play a large part in it? Yes I dont think they stood a chance of winning with Stead and Allen in the team (although i though Allen did himself proud) but we certainly should have been up there with the swedes

 

as Rune Holta has proven time and time again.... you do not have to be a great rider to do well..... but you do need stonking machinery!

I wont comment on yesterday since I didnt see the meeting. But with Scott apparently on "top tuner"-engines on the same positions in world ranking as he was when his dad (RTN) was doing his engines a few years ago might suggest that he or his team lack the knowledge to get the very best out of the machinery on hand? They (brits) are good, no doubt. I saw Richardson at Terenzano two weeks ago and he was 2nd best on the night at a SGP-semifinal. Funny enough, the best was a Dane (Gjedde)...

[spook 28]

tbh I thought he had one of the fastest bikes in the GP field when his dad was doing his engines....... the issue at that time with scott were his tortouse gating reflexes and his ontrack decisions

 

I agree though, I do think he has some issues either in the communication between himself and his mechanics.... or his mechanics in general .......... this is actually statistically able to be seen as I posted here http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/ind...p;#entry1241877

[iris123 20,997]

Good post.

 

The strange thing to me is Scott ,Chris and in the past Lee, have all ridden on Ole Olsen prepared tracks.

Why is it a problem to set a bike up.

Scott Nicholls 60 GP's and every one starts like his first ever.

The Danes and the Swedes have the set up instantly, the British riders don't find it till race 15?

 

On to Thursday more of the same ?

Hit the nail on the head.

How long have the GPs been going?.How long has Olsen been the chief?

Everyone can blame him for preparing the track to Danish requirements.But surely by now one or two of our guys might have got used to the needs of an Olsen prepared track? Guess not

You have to ask why they were outgunned at home by a poor Swedish side.Forget the Danes we ain't in the same league

[mikegum 0]

thanks for the info but dont countrys federations put a little cash in to help ,as they are racing for their countrys not themselves.

 

Depends who you are 'speedy', certainly the DMU & SVEMO have schemes to help younger riders with equipment, tuning etc. For the Grand Prix I understand some riders actualy 'rent' engines from their tuners. The problem seemed to be in the set up as much as anything else, I noticed Lindgren had Graham Jones with him to help but quite frankly there is no excuse to be underpowered/wrong set up at a track you ride as often as Cov....it looked like Joonas had his Lakeside bikes with him & he seemed to go OK, albeit he may have stuck a different engine in.

 

[mikegum 0]

There are any Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

 

Fair comment but for gods sake...3 of the riders ride there evry week & Scott was last years number 1, surely they can set a bike for when a track they should know like the back of their hand is a bit slick. Rymel, Joonas and Nermark seemed to manage.

 

[Squire 0]

Whilst I would agree that there are slight differences in performances of all the bikes and there is a certain amount of adjustments that can be made to suit different tracks and riders, though generally in the grand scheme of things they quite simple as racing motorcycles.

 

I was amazed at the amount of grip (or to use the Kelvin Tatum’s parlance ‘hooking up’) that the Danes and also the Swedish riders experienced from the exit of turn two and down the back straight compared with the GB riders. How much is that down to the state of tune of the engines, the set up or just a stronger right wrist?

[21st century heathen 220]

..... Bjarne does not have performance like that in the league ..... and to some degree he doesnt have it in the GP either.......... the same could be said for NKI and Bjerre................... and we dont need to go through the somewhat ordinary names in the swedish team and their performances do we?

 

When the track is on the slick side, or very slick as it was last night, Bjarne is very good around Brandon. I've seen more than one maximum or close to in the last few years.

 

The strange thing to me is Scott ,Chris and in the past Lee, have all ridden on Ole Olsen prepared tracks.

 

Well lets flip the coin. Why do some foreign riders look utterly lost and near useless when a track is very heavy, deep, grippy, rutted etc? It's not as though it's the first time they've ridden such a track.

 

... there is no excuse to be underpowered/wrong set up at a track you ride as often as Cov....it looked like Joonas had his Lakeside bikes with him & he seemed to go OK, albeit he may have stuck a different engine in.

 

But Brandon hasn't been that slick since about 1983. We should have home track advantage but that went out the window with the shale. Of course Jonas rode well on his Arena bikes, if that's what he used, as it's a slick track as well.

 

The biggest surprise for me was that AJ didn't score more, although he also likes to get out very wide in the dirt and there wasn't any. When the track is prepared the way Lance Sealey did it a year ago AJ and Bomber a cut above anybody in the world around Brandon. Last night they both struggled, less so AJ of course.

[DanTheMan 0]

Last night clearly showed having the right setup for a slick track helped rather than having a fast engine, our riders snaked from the starts and the back end was spinning out a hell of alot around the corners (resulting in steady pulling a locker).

 

I think it's clear our riders don't always communicate ideas to each other in the pits regarding setups etc as well as the Danes do.

 

Also isn't it time to scrap practice for the SWC and GP's ?, as everytime a rider is questioned on track conditions, i've never heard one say they're the same as in practice.

[speedy den boy 19]

Whilst I would agree that there are slight differences in performances of all the bikes and there is a certain amount of adjustments that can be made to suit different tracks and riders, though generally in the grand scheme of things they quite simple as racing motorcycles.

 

I was amazed at the amount of grip (or to use the Kelvin Tatum’s parlance ‘hooking up’) that the Danes and also the Swedish riders experienced from the exit of turn two and down the back straight compared with the GB riders. How much is that down to the state of tune of the engines, the set up or just a stronger right wrist?

 

 

Another good post squire,hope other people read your post,you have seen it,i have seen it so surely those in the know can see it the amount of grip other riders had.BP IS A DANISH GATER AND I DONT THINK I HAVE EVER SEEN PASS ANYONE!!!!

[razzer 1]

basically other than Richardson we dont have a rider than can gate fairly consistently

 

Nicholls and Harris race hard when conditions suit but harris is nowhwere near the rider of last season whether that is down to injuries or bikes i dont know the answer

 

Stead and Allen are no more than very good Premier League riders

 

As for tuning and set ups etc , explain why it is that poles and danes and swedes and aussies all seem to regularly have the right set up etc for any meeting and british riders never seem to

 

think the answer ir more about attitude , confidence and ability , we are way behind most nations in all 3 categories and frankly it was a disgraceful performance by GB

 

Good premier league heat leaders like Nermark and Rymel were showing our so called GP riders , how to set up and how to ride

 

maybe Tai and Ed Kennett will improve attitudes on thursday but if u think that was slick wait til you seen vojens its never seen dirt , we will be lucky to beat the russians

 

Woeful display

 

We want a determined performance , no more excuses , show some pride in your country and more important show some bottle !!!!!