Idea For Sgp / World Final

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

There's a kind of fascism among some supporters of the GP system which forbids any others an alternative view..

 

I thought for a moment, I'd stumbled on the religion/atheism discussion in another section.

 

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

I thought for a moment, I'd stumbled on the religion/atheism discussion in another section.

 

Thing is Hump., me & you (and others) can have a reasoned discussion on the merits or demerits of this (and other) subjects, but then there are people who respond to a thread with a comment "you should of (sic) asked for a brain for xmas"..!!!

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

Yes times will be hard for everyone in 09 but the gp in one form or another will stay. the old one off will not return.

 

I can't see the one-off World Final returning, but I can see the SGP being scaled back, and possibly IMG not being involved in future. It seemed to have 2-3 good years a while back, but it just seems to have been on a downturn ever since (certainly before the current financial crisis came along).

 

not because i dont believe in the gp.

 

I don't have a problem with the concept, but there are too many rounds, and whole thing needs to be more closely linked with the national leagues. Of course, the national leagues are run just as poorly (if not worse), but we can live in hope of a brighter future...

Edited December 27, 2008 by Humphrey Appleby

[The Know 221]

And you need to learn how to read!!!

 

Exactly why is it that you can claim universal right to saying that progress only lies with one idea (the GPs) whilst others are considered living in the past with another idea (a season-long competition of qualifiers, culminating in a one night Final )..?

 

As I pointed out in my earlier thread, there are many examples of change in Speedway history (one being from the World Final to the GP) and many examples later of either changing back or changing to another idea or format.

 

There's a kind of fascism among some supporters of the GP system which forbids any others an alternative view.. And it does you no credit....

Why ? Because its the best way to find a true champion. All other forms of motor sport are run this way, none have a one off final. I do agree it should be less rounds and the w/c should only be every 2 or 3 years. I dont mind change but to go back to a one final even if it has semis and so on is the wrong way. What if you win every round and then be injured before the final or have a few dnf. The winner is then not the true champion.

[ballinger 32]

IMO, those who are anti the SGP do have a point that its too much of a closed shop, and the presence of BSI/Olsen rider nominations does the SGP no good.

 

Also IMO a return to the one off world final is not the way forward, as The Know states no other form of motorcycle sport decides its world champion from a single event.

 

Regretably though for BSI they have sold years worth of TV contracts with a minimum of 11 events per year, and are now in a position of filling the calendar with such events as the "Nordic Grand Prix". This IMO does the sport no good as it becomes clear to the casual follower, just by the name, that the event is nothing more than a fixture filler.

 

Therefore, IMO the whole SGP series would be better served by a scaling back of the number of events, or a radical overhaul of where the events are staged. However, neither are easy to acheive given the current TV contract set ups, and the current world financial credit crunch.

 

To the closed shop argument I say replace the 7 WC qualifying meetings with 6 SGP qualifiers, each to be staged a day or 2 days prior to the SGP, preferably at an alternative venue to the SGP. Qualifying could be reserved to SGP events 3-8, and would offer say 8 slots per qualifier to anyone who paid an entry fee. These qualifying meetings would be self supporting, and would offer no cash prizes to the competitors, but would be attractive enough to supporters as they would include the bottom 7 from the previous SGP.

 

To the repetitive nature of the current SGP calendar BSI should IMO be actively persuing more attractive ways of filling their 11 events, with the 'Nordic' being bumped in favour of placing SGPs at active Speedway centres such as Gorican and Togliatti. It is clear that some planning is going on behind the scenes given the announcements that Copenhagen and Leszno are to stage SGPs for the next 3-4 years, I just hope that BSI recognise that staging a Nordic SGP in 2009 directly after a Scandinavian SGP is just plain daft.

Edited December 28, 2008 by ballinger

[barrow boy 119]

Would need some tweaking, but an awesome idea! Get a letter to BSI as soon as possible! .. They prbs wouldnt read it though, would they?!

Oh they'll read it but they will take no notice of it and if your lucky you might get a note back thanking you for your interest etc.

[barrow boy 119]

Some of Pete's points are Ok such as national champions qualifying but I would restrict it to the nations that qualified for the previous years SWC final. I also consider that the SGP World Championship may benefit by reintroducing some more meaningfull qualifying championships i.e Overseas/Scandinavian/European etc. I also agree with his and others' view that there are too many GP's but the jury is out at present on Pete's suggestion of condensing the series into just one week. perhaps one a month would be better? I would also be inclined to have the SWC every 2 years.

[ballinger 32]

I would also be inclined to have the SWC every 2 years.

 

I 100% per cent agree with this, but again TV contracts have been sold for 4 events per year, so SGP and SWC = 15 events per season

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

Regretably though for BSI they have sold years worth of TV contracts with a minimum of 11 events per year

 

Although strangely, the television contracts seem to be falling in value.

 

To the repetitive nature of the current SGP calendar BSI should IMO be actively persuing more attractive ways of filling their 11 events

 

The whole thing peaked about 5-6 years ago, and since then has lacked much in the way of imagination. Too much complacency, or too many other distractions perhaps...?

 

[LOL 0]

I think one thing to consider in the GP series as it is now,with having so many meetings would be to drop your worst score,it may make it more interesting?

[Gemini 4,894]

Or in Nicki P's case drop his three highest scores to make it even more interesting.

[HenryW 1,178]

The sudden death final race was brought into the closest thing we have now to a proper World Championship, the U-21 World Final - delivered a largely-seen-as-unfair result and was scrapped.

The Premier League title last year was NOT decided by a play-off and won't be again in '09; so that (also unfair) system has been scrapped in Britain's largest league.

 

So tell me again, that these things when brought in are "here to stay"...!!!!!

Interestingly, both the examples that you gave were things that led to unfair results in one-off events, and they were ditched.

 

That wouldn't suggest a rush back to the old one off World Final was on the cards!

 

Some of Pete's points are Ok such as national champions qualifying but I would restrict it to the nations that qualified for the previous years SWC final.

Only problem is...look at the National Champions. Whilst Chris Holder would be an interesting addition, I really can't see that including Magnus Zetterstrom and Adam Skornicki in the SGP would have the fans flocking back! (should I point out that both of these weak and unlikely National champions won in one-off National Finals?)

 

To the repetitive nature of the current SGP calendar BSI should IMO be actively persuing more attractive ways of filling their 11 events, with the 'Nordic' being bumped in favour of placing SGPs at active Speedway centres such as Gorican and Togliatti.

Although I don't agree with the choice, I think it's probably a little harsh suggesting that Gorican and Togliatti are more active speedway centres than Vojens!!

 

Whilst the SGP IS looking like quite a closed shop, the problem is that the top guys really don't change much from year to year. To have a credible series, you HAVE to have the best in there, and that means that the names at the top wont change that much. It's the same in most sports run along similar lines.

To me, the problem is that 16 riders just isn't enough to give opportunities for new riders coming along.

You saw more interesting results when there were 24 riders involved, but that was ditched for financial reasons, which does obviously call into question the viability of the series.

 

[ballinger 32]

Although I don't agree with the choice, I think it's probably a little harsh suggesting that Gorican and Togliatti are more active speedway centres than Vojens!!

 

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that.

 

I dont believe anyone wouldn't agree that either Gorican or Togliatti are active speedway centres, but similarly Vojens is too.

 

My point was that to have Vojens staging an SGP titled "Nordic" just 2 weeks after Malilla stages a "Scandivanian" SGP is IMO totally ridiculous.

 

What next a second GB round titled the "Commonwealth" SGP?

 

My point was more that 11 SGP made up of 9 unique countries plus a European and a Scandinavian has more credibilty than 11 SGP made up of just 8 staging countries, or 11 unique countries would hold more credibility still.

 

PS : Just as an aside, what#'s happened to the Super Prix in 2009 ? No mention of it so far ! quelle surprise

Edited December 29, 2008 by ballinger

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

Only problem is...look at the National Champions. Whilst Chris Holder would be an interesting addition, I really can't see that including Magnus Zetterstrom and Adam Skornicki in the SGP would have the fans flocking back! (should I point out that both of these weak and unlikely National champions won in one-off National Finals?)

 

Since the SGP was introduced, the various national championships (at least in the major countries) have not been taken as seriously as they once were. If they promised the reward of a SGP place, perhaps they'd be more prestigious and therefore be harder fought.

 

That said, I don't think you could seed the national champions of any more than the top 4-6 countries, as the quality of the champions would rapidly drop off after that.

 

It's the same in most sports run along similar lines.

 

It is, but as you say, there's usually more than 16 competitors as well. I'm certainly not one to suggest the solution is to return to a one-off World Final, but I certainly had more interest in the World Championship when you didn't know which 16 riders would qualify each year. Yes, certain riders always made it, but there was usually the odd shock and/or unknown rider to add variety.

 

The SGP is now so predictable that even Mrs Appleby knows the names of all the riders, and that Scott Nicholls never does very well. I think that sums it up.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

My point was more that 11 SGP made up of 9 unique countries plus a European and a Scandinavian has more credibilty than 11 SGP made up of just 8 staging countries, or 11 unique countries would hold more credibility still.

 

I'd say the SGP should optimally be a maximum of 8 rounds, with no more than one GP per country, and 1-2 GPs outside of Europe (e.g. Australia and the US). Of course, the reality appears to be that far from taking the sport to new heights as many soothsayers predicted, BSI are scratching around for cheap places to stage the requisite number of GPs which won't be a financial disaster.

 

I recently read an interesting article by, I think, Jeff Scott who pointed out that BSI have actually only increased average attendances by 15% compared to the SGP before they were involved. Of course, it's now also staged live on television, but I suspect that may well have happened anyway in this day and age.

 

The SGP is increasingly looking a bit like Woolworths did in its latter years...

Edited December 29, 2008 by Humphrey Appleby