Fourentee 987 Posted June 30, 2009 I've spoken with Ash Holloway about this very topic and he assures me he'd be happy to work with the GB squad. Yes, he certainly got close to the team captain at Cardiff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Know 221 Posted June 30, 2009 im still interested in the machinery side of things.................... despite us having a relatively weak squad for some time now I still think that the level of and consistency of machinery in the team has been a huge factor and something that must be prioritised every year now because it is certainly a standard thing for the other top nations................... Lewis said on Sky that Rob Lyon had been organising mechanics a month or so ago which is obviously an important side of things ....... but it seems to me that there is no substitute for a world class tuner being onboard and servicing the whole team................. until this happens success will only arrive with a slice of fortune and if this only comes with a price tag then what is the price tag and who is willing to sponsor the national team to raise the money? Is anyone out there trying to get the sponsorship? have you ever been approached 'the know'? problem is all the riders use differant tuners and like their motors set up differantly. no i havnt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snapper-racing.co.uk 6 Posted June 30, 2009 im still interested in the machinery side of things.................... despite us having a relatively weak squad for some time now I still think that the level of and consistency of machinery in the team has been a huge factor and something that must be prioritised every year now because it is certainly a standard thing for the other top nations................... Lewis said on Sky that Rob Lyon had been organising mechanics a month or so ago which is obviously an important side of things ....... but it seems to me that there is no substitute for a world class tuner being onboard and servicing the whole team................. until this happens success will only arrive with a slice of fortune and if this only comes with a price tag then what is the price tag and who is willing to sponsor the national team to raise the money? Is anyone out there trying to get the sponsorship? have you ever been approached 'the know'? Yes organising things like Tshirts and trousers ..... cmon guys...you really should listen. There isnt this vast gap in equipment you are led to believe - its all about knowledge and experience.... Tuners are good at knowing set ups, thats why riders have them in the pits...they dont suddenly work on an engine there and then, they just know what needs to be done to suit the tracks. Yes they have been out there trying to get sponsorship - well I certainly was a few year ago and nearly had something with Onfire sorted until the big wigs screwed it all up because they demanded excessive money to what was offered. Problem is its so screwed at the top that the house isnt in order....too many organ grinding monkeys..... and those that do try arent supported in the right way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spook 28 Posted June 30, 2009 you are preaching to the converted snapper Tuners are good at knowing set ups, thats why riders have them in the pits...they dont suddenly work on an engine there and then, they just know what needs to be done to suit the tracks. yes of course this is the case ....... and the results of it are clear to see when despite Bomber gating like a pensioner in the gp's in 07, Brian Andersen had him setup so well that he could overtake where others couldnt ............ and then we have the flipside of the SWC in 07 where we had things so abysmally wrong until something like the 16th heat...... but did they have a tuner/their tuners in the pits with them? Clearly until their last rides no one knew what they were doing you cannot be telling me that we have the same support and organisation as the other big 4 snapper ........... just the money that these guys are expected to pay themselves tells the story Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mateusz 0 Posted June 30, 2009 Yes, he certainly got close to the team captain at Cardiff. He's not the team captain any more, is he? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snapper-racing.co.uk 6 Posted June 30, 2009 you are preaching to the converted snapper yes of course this is the case ....... and the results of it are clear to see when despite Bomber gating like a pensioner in the gp's in 07, Brian Andersen had him setup so well that he could overtake where others couldnt ............ and then we have the flipside of the SWC in 07 where we had things so abysmally wrong until something like the 16th heat...... but did they have a tuner/their tuners in the pits with them? Clearly until their last rides no one knew what they were doing you cannot be telling me that we have the same support and organisation as the other big 4 snapper ........... just the money that these guys are expected to pay themselves tells the story I think youll find its not so much the money - ALL the other teams work like teams, they completely help each other and ride as a team....the Brits I have never seen that same gel and its the same with the football team.... they never seem to put their own personal ambitions away for the team. Why do we ALWAYS lose when we're against Germany - because theres that Aura around it that they've beaten us so many times in the past... were always in the wrong mindset. I think you believe its more to do with equipment rather than team spirit and encouragement....we're always so depressed about how our team is so bad, so what happens, they make it true. Where is the money really involved????? I was in the USA camp helping for a number of seasons and that was a real team spirit, the reason they didnt do so well was because of the experience the riders had - so of course they struggled, we didnt have Tuners there.... these guys are only glorified mechanics at the end of the day NOT magicians, there isnt a switch to make things right - they just have an educated guess. Dont glorify these people because this is exactly how they make even more money!!!! its all psychological believe me. If we encouraged rather than battered we would have a strong team..... I think it also comes from training them as youngsters - bacuase the system isnt in place at the start it doesnt help later on Its also not all about engines - its about sprocket sizing and ratios which is learnt over time - its very hard to get it right in a first ride Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 30, 2009 any idea if the grapevine has worked in this instance Trees? Err yep, we'll just have to see if anything comes of it ............ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spook 28 Posted July 1, 2009 Where is the money really involved????? I was in the USA camp helping for a number of seasons and that was a real team spirit, the reason they didnt do so well was because of the experience the riders had - so of course they struggled, we didnt have Tuners there.... these guys are only glorified mechanics at the end of the day NOT magicians, there isnt a switch to make things right - they just have an educated guess. Dont glorify these people because this is exactly how they make even more money!!!! its all psychological believe me. If we encouraged rather than battered we would have a strong team..... I think it also comes from training them as youngsters - bacuase the system isnt in place at the start it doesnt help later on Its also not all about engines - its about sprocket sizing and ratios which is learnt over time - its very hard to get it right in a first ride I guess im thinking........ knowledge = tuner (amongst other things) = team tuned to a high level in the first place + adjustments on the day and a direction for the mechanics as a whole = money I hear what you are saying about not glorifying them but how is it that some are better than others then? Just the fact that they are used frequently and get better results means that they are worth getting involved....surely? ............ without this kind of central organisation to the team I should imagine there are less standards set for the machinery... ie rider A is using a specially tuned engine with sprocket size x chosen by his mechanic and a new carb............ rider B didnt bother getting an engine tuned (why should he bother if its going to cost him?)... a sprocket size of Y has been chosen by his mechanic and a carb that should be pensioned off The psychological side has been there to see and without wanting to run anyone down I dont think it has helped when our best riders have been psychologically fragile at times .... it is not the best way to lead a team Err yep, we'll just have to see if anything comes of it ............ that sounds interesting Trees Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Team Man 32 Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I think youll find its not so much the money - ALL the other teams work like teams, they completely help each other and ride as a team....the Brits I have never seen that same gel and its the same with the football team.... they never seem to put their own personal ambitions away for the team. Here you have it in a nutshell, "TEAM", this is why Rob Lyon is the best man for the job, he has the knack and ability to get riders to work together as a team, helping and encouraging each other in the pits, the teamsmanship within the Kings Lynn Stars is terrific, and this is all down to Rob Lyon making it the best "Team" in the league. Given time I'm sure Rob can get Team GB to work as a Team, and not a group of individual riders. So many people are ready to knock Rob, but it is mainly based on jealousy of how well he has done with Kings Lynn, and how successful they are. They are a true Team Edited July 3, 2009 by Team Man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snapper-racing.co.uk 6 Posted July 3, 2009 I guess im thinking........ knowledge = tuner (amongst other things) = team tuned to a high level in the first place + adjustments on the day and a direction for the mechanics as a whole = money I hear what you are saying about not glorifying them but how is it that some are better than others then? Just the fact that they are used frequently and get better results means that they are worth getting involved....surely? ............ without this kind of central organisation to the team I should imagine there are less standards set for the machinery... ie rider A is using a specially tuned engine with sprocket size x chosen by his mechanic and a new carb............ rider B didnt bother getting an engine tuned (why should he bother if its going to cost him?)... a sprocket size of Y has been chosen by his mechanic and a carb that should be pensioned off The psychological side has been there to see and without wanting to run anyone down I dont think it has helped when our best riders have been psychologically fragile at times .... it is not the best way to lead a team that sounds interesting Trees If you had ever been a speedway mechanic you would see it is a much simpler as you think. It is normally the riders who decide what set ups they want to have, and a mechanic with experience will help guide them. A engine set up for one rider wont work for another rider....due to riding style and what riders actually want. Carbs are set up for the engine - theyre not just thrown away, the jetting is changed. The psychological side is probably the biggest thing in speedway. Scott Nicholls is a good example... his eqipment is probably better than a lot of GP riders - but psychologically hes in a rut... and of course you blame everything on the equipment and not the mind. Mind over matter. As for tuners...like equipment they seem to have their cult moments - I remember a few years back everyone wanted a KLM motor - then it was PJR etc... its the same with engines and carbs - because hes got it I want it...and it never quite works out like they hope it does. This is also psychological - becuse if you THINK you have something good you believe in it more. A central organiser for the team???? huh - why would all the bikes be the same...riders at league matches usually have bikes set up different, why do you think they try to stick to one bike? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spook 28 Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) yes of course riders choose the setup .... i'm not saying the tuner decides everything and between him and the manager they say "get on with it" ........... i'm saying that there is some tuning prep leading up to and including the event rather than this hotch potch approach we have had for years now (edit: however who better than a tuner to be correcting or positively influencing over a setup that doesnt actually suit the rider...even if he thinks it does) obviously you have the experience and know how with a lot snapper but what you are saying about tuners makes no sense...... there is no market without a product....... and a market always has a sliding scale of prices as per the quality.................... if what you are saying is the case then look out for 'spook tuning services' next week interesting what you are saying about the Carbs.... I was under the impression that the top riders sell theirs off after they have used them a couple of times Edited July 3, 2009 by spook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,009 Posted July 3, 2009 Mind over matter. As for tuners...like equipment they seem to have their cult moments - I remember a few years back everyone wanted a KLM motor - then it was PJR etc... its the same with engines and carbs - because hes got it I want it...and it never quite works out like they hope it does. This is also psychological - becuse if you THINK you have something good you believe in it more. It doesn't really explain why Crump is so much better than everyone else at the moment.There must be something other than the psycholgical element that is making him soooooo much better,surely?I have seen riders winning on confidence or by out psyching others.......but they don't win by such a distance against 3 other very good riders.And look at Emil as well for that matter........Holloway is giving him an advantage that he is using well......apart from Cardiff,where he looked normal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
