Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted September 15, 2009 You need to check your history before making silly statements, plenty of riders were seeded to the later stages of the championship and some even to the final itself Hmm, whilst it is the case that sometimes the Poles, for example, selected their reps in a WF the point holds that rider no matter what their status could rely on being 'seeded' straight through to a Final... So it's you who needs to be more accurate with your statements... There is no question that the old WF system was better in every respect than the GPs...: I think more and more people are waking up to this fact by the day... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 15, 2009 Hmm, whilst it is the case that sometimes the Poles, for example, selected their reps in a WF the point holds that rider no matter what their status could rely on being 'seeded' straight through to a Final... So it's you who needs to be more accurate with your statements... There is no question that the old WF system was better in every respect than the GPs...: I think more and more people are waking up to this fact by the day... Really, you dont go back in the sport as far as I do but I suggest you research that fact Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Blanchard 19 Posted September 15, 2009 According to the History on the world Speedway finals by Maurice Jones. Peter Craven was seeded direct to Wembley as the reining champion in 1956. As was Barry Briggs in ‘58 & ‘59 and Ronnie Moore in 1960. Hope that helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 15, 2009 According to the History on the world Speedway finals by Maurice Jones. Peter Craven was seeded direct to Wembley as the reining champion in 1956. As was Barry Briggs in ‘58 & ‘59 and Ronnie Moore in 1960. Hope that helps. But according to Derek it never happened Jim! They were not the only ones by the way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted September 15, 2009 According to the History on the world Speedway finals by Maurice Jones. Peter Craven was seeded direct to Wembley as the reining champion in 1956. As was Barry Briggs in ‘58 & ‘59 and Ronnie Moore in 1960. Hope that helps. Fascinating information Jim and something I'd not picked-up on. I feel it was as wrong then as it is now though. Rob McCaffery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) But according to Derek it never happened Jim! They were not the only ones by the way Weren't all five Poles seeded in 1973? They had a qualifying criterion and Jerzy Szczakiel just made it in fifth. The Poles thought about swapping Szczakiel for another rider, as they thought he would be totally outclassed in the World Final - instead he was the best rider on the day (and yes he was riding better than Mauger even before the run-off) and won the final. All the best Rob Edited September 15, 2009 by lucifer sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 15, 2009 Fascinating information Jim and something I'd not picked-up on. I feel it was as wrong then as it is now though. Rob McCaffery. Rob, it was only the World Champion who was seeded though - and surely there's some justification in that. The practice didn't last for that long - it began (I think) with Craven in 1956 and lasted until some point in the 1960s. I'm pretty sure the Swedes and Poles seeded their riders through when they were the hosts of World Finals during the 1970s. Can anyone else back this up or disprove it? I'm almost certain Jan Andersson was seeded to the 1980 World Final. And in 1977, Peter Collins was seeded to the Inter-Continental Final. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 15, 2009 Weren't all five Poles seeded in 1973? They had a qualifying criterion and Jerzy Szczakiel just made it in fifth. The Poles thought about swapping Szczakiel for another rider, as they thought he would be totally outclassed in the World Final - instead he was the best rider on the day (and yes he was riding better than Mauger even before the run-off) and won the final. All the best Rob Seeding in one form or another existed right throughout the championships. The Swedes had five guaranteed places in the 1974 Final, the brits had 4 in 1978. Admittedly a qualyfying process was used to determine these places but it wasn't the open qualifying system that Derek seems to think. The problem with open qualifying was evident at the 1976 and 1982 World Team Cup Finals, no home riders = no crowd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 15, 2009 Rob, it was only the World Champion who was seeded though - and surely there's some justification in that. The practice didn't last for that long - it began (I think) with Craven in 1956 and lasted until some point in the 1960s. I'm pretty sure the Swedes and Poles seeded their riders through when they were the hosts of World Finals during the 1970s. Can anyone else back this up or disprove it? I'm almost certain Jan Andersson was seeded to the 1980 World Final. And in 1977, Peter Collins was seeded to the Inter-Continental Final. All the best Rob No Jan Anderrson won the Swedish Final which quaified him direct to the final, the 4 next placed riders continued the qualification process via the Nordic Final Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted September 15, 2009 The problem with open qualifying was evident at the 1976 and 1982 World Team Cup Finals, no home riders = no crowd This raises the question whether an event is worth staging if it can't stand in its own feet without having local interest artificially guaranteed. Rob McCaffery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) No Jan Anderrson won the Swedish Final which quaified him direct to the final, the 4 next placed riders continued the qualification process via the Nordic Final I guess that's slightly different, but it still meant he skipped the tough Nordic and Inter-Continental rounds. Of course, "flying" Dutchman Henny Kroeze was seeded to the 1987 World Final (After being eliminated from the qualifiers). Actually I think the Poles were seeded in 1986 & 1992 as well - again after being eliminated. Ironic that these days it's the Brits who rely on seeding - and shows how far down the totem pole we've slipped. All the best Rob Edited September 15, 2009 by lucifer sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 15, 2009 The problem with open qualifying was evident at the 1976 and 1982 World Team Cup Finals, no home riders = no crowd And there was also the 1979 World Team Cup Final - amazingly England NEVER qualified for a World Team Cup Final at White City, slipping up on all three ocassions in the qualifiers. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 15, 2009 This raises the question whether an event is worth staging if it can't stand in its own feet without having local interest artificially guaranteed. Rob McCaffery. Even though such seedings were prevalent at the time the USA had no such luxury when staging the world final in LA. As it happened (and how it happened is of course another story) they had 3 finalists and the event still bombed, although only by the standards of the day because it still had 30,000 plus attending, how many paid is another matter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) I guess that's slightly different, but it still meant he skipped the tough Nordic and Inter-Continental rounds. Of course, "flying" Dutchman Henny Kroeze was seeded to the 1987 World Final (After being eliminated from the qualifiers). Actually I think the Poles were seeded in 1986 & 1992 as well - again after being eliminated. Ironic that these days it's the Brits who rely on seeding - and shows how far down the totem pole we've slipped. All the best Rob Zenon Plech, Edward Jancarz, Marek Cieslak & Jerzy Rembas were all seeded to the 1976 world final. Slawomir Drabik was seeded straight to the 92 Final. Ryszard Dolomisiewicz was the seed in 86 As far as I recall in 76 those 4 poles didn't take part in the qualification system but Drabik & Dolomisiewicz certainly did and failed to qualify Wonder when Derek will be back cap in hand to apologise for stating none of this ever happened!!!!!!! Edited September 15, 2009 by jeff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Even though such seedings were prevalent at the time the USA had no such luxury when staging the world final in LA. As it happened (and how it happened is of course another story) they had 3 finalists and the event still bombed, although only by the standards of the day because it still had 30,000 plus attending, how many paid is another matter Of course, they would have been guaranteed one finalist, but imagine if e.g. Kelly Moran had qualified and Bruce Penhall been eliminated. And to get those 3 finalists, Penhall threw the 1982 Overseas Final. I was a big Penhall fan, and even as a child, I knew what had happened. Penhall had been told what to do by the US bigwigs - it was obvious. I was almost in tears by the end of that meeting, as even the Cradley fans turned against him. And then Carter was grinning ear-to-ear on the truck as Penhall recevied a torrent of abuse from the fans - which gave me yet another reason to dislike Carter. So: rather than that unsavoury situation, would it have been better to seed 3 US riders to the 1982 World Final? It goes against most the principles of most people, including my own, but are principles as important as attracting a crowd? Food for thought. All the best Rob Edited September 15, 2009 by lucifer sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
