Dave Jones 2,127 Posted November 30, 2003 Stop whinging for gods sake - you've just signed one of the best British prospects, so why not forget about the idea of keeping all your assets and letting others struggle, and look around you!!! The sort of team Coventry could put out next year, even without Hamill/Jonsson/Richardson (delete two of three!) will be exciting, young and capable of winning you something at last. And more importantly for the SPORT, rather than your very small part of it, all teams have the ability to compete on an even palying field!!! Unfortunately Lupus you don,t seem to understand that there will always be winners and losers.If you give two people 10 grand each and tell them to go out and make their fortune one will come back with 20 grand & the other with nothing thats whats called "life".The problem with certain people in the BSPA is their negative thoughts and the continual desire to level down.If we take Ipswich as an example,they have been very succesful over recent years and have a retained list to be proud of.The fact that they have not been able to build on that success is hardly the fault of anyone other than the promotors of Ipswich Speedway.We are told that this new system is to encourage the new teams inthe elite league.Why should we?Terry Russell has his fingers in three tracks now, at Swindon he has bought the contract of Leigh Adams ,at Eastbourne he has a surplus of riders that will probably end up at one of the new tracks effectively keeping all his riders in work.He will be the big winner in all of this.At Coventry we have always built for the future,The introduction of Jonsson ,Janniro,& Fisher to Britain are the recent examples.Add to that the club has never been afraid to put their hands in their pockets to by a rider when necessary.Now if other promoters are unable or unwilling to compete on these terms thats, hardly the problem of Coventry Speedway,and now we are forced to dispose of two of our top riders who are not necessarily guaranteed to find other clubs . Who,s the loser there? Not the new teams in the league but the two riders concerned ,and the management of Cov and all the fans.I suggest you put your obvious dislike of the Bees to one side and then perhaps some" rational thinking" might be more evident. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekker 239 Posted November 30, 2003 The problem with certain people in the BSPA is their negative thoughts and the continual desire to level down. If we take your arguement as correct then such tactics the EL would soon be run with only the 3 or 4 richest teams running. Sport doesnt reflect life in so much that if fans dont believe they have a chance of winning or at best being competitive they wont support you. Thats a fact of life, look at the numbers of man u or arsenal shirts you see in Coventry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Jones 2,127 Posted November 30, 2003 The problem with certain people in the BSPA is their negative thoughts and the continual desire to level down. If we take your arguement as correct then such tactics the EL would soon be run with only the 3 or 4 richest teams running. Sport doesnt reflect life in so much that if fans dont believe they have a chance of winning or at best being competitive they wont support you. Thats a fact of life, look at the numbers of man u or arsenal shirts you see in Coventry. The bees have won nothing for years but they are very well supported.The fact is the club has to try, not throw the towel in and say play by our rules or we take the ball home.Sandhu is a new promotor this year but you didn.t see him running to the conference asking for team strengths to be reduced to cut his costs,he has attacked the business in a positive manner and supported his team 100%.He has actually stated that costs will not be cut because last seasons second strings will now ask for heat leader money.For his troubles he now been well & truly kicked in the backside by the weak spined people who run this sport.Dekker if you genuinely believe I am wrong have a look round a few of the other forums and see what public opinion is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted November 30, 2003 The problem with certain people in the BSPA is their negative thoughts and the continual desire to level down. If we take your arguement as correct then such tactics the EL would soon be run with only the 3 or 4 richest teams running. Sport doesnt reflect life in so much that if fans dont believe they have a chance of winning or at best being competitive they wont support you. Thats a fact of life, look at the numbers of man u or arsenal shirts you see in Coventry. Not necessarily the case. Look at Wolves FC. Everyone knew before the season started they would struggle, and they have. However, they can sell out every match. Fans will support their team. (in any sport) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted December 1, 2003 Dekker, I have to agree with 21CH I've watched Newport now since 1998 (as a regualr) and go whatever, even with glenn Cuningham in the team when we have no chance of wining anything (apart from a wooden spoon). I watch my club what ever happens at the club. However I am stuggling to convince myself I should watch them next year with the bloody stupid rules. Tho' last year I did say I would not watch the BLC and then I said I would not watch any PL vs EL BLC meetings and then in the end I went to Newport vs Poole (God I wish I had not, I had a face lie I slapped arse all the way though after the poole tactics/BSPA decisions were annonced). What ever happens, I'll always support Newport Speedway, I'd prefer it to be stood on the 3rd bend at the Haley Stadium but I might just be from where ever I end up on a Sunday afternoon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lupus 1 Posted December 1, 2003 Stop whinging for gods sake - you've just signed one of the best British prospects, so why not forget about the idea of keeping all your assets and letting others struggle, and look around you!!! The sort of team Coventry could put out next year, even without Hamill/Jonsson/Richardson (delete two of three!) will be exciting, young and capable of winning you something at last. And more importantly for the SPORT, rather than your very small part of it, all teams have the ability to compete on an even palying field!!! Unfortunately Lupus you don,t seem to understand that there will always be winners and losers.If you give two people 10 grand each and tell them to go out and make their fortune one will come back with 20 grand & the other with nothing thats whats called "life".The problem with certain people in the BSPA is their negative thoughts and the continual desire to level down.If we take Ipswich as an example,they have been very succesful over recent years and have a retained list to be proud of.The fact that they have not been able to build on that success is hardly the fault of anyone other than the promotors of Ipswich Speedway.We are told that this new system is to encourage the new teams inthe elite league.Why should we?Terry Russell has his fingers in three tracks now, at Swindon he has bought the contract of Leigh Adams ,at Eastbourne he has a surplus of riders that will probably end up at one of the new tracks effectively keeping all his riders in work.He will be the big winner in all of this.At Coventry we have always built for the future,The introduction of Jonsson ,Janniro,& Fisher to Britain are the recent examples.Add to that the club has never been afraid to put their hands in their pockets to by a rider when necessary.Now if other promoters are unable or unwilling to compete on these terms thats, hardly the problem of Coventry Speedway,and now we are forced to dispose of two of our top riders who are not necessarily guaranteed to find other clubs . Who,s the loser there? Not the new teams in the league but the two riders concerned ,and the management of Cov and all the fans.I suggest you put your obvious dislike of the Bees to one side and then perhaps some" rational thinking" might be more evident. My post has nothing to DO with how I feel about Coventry and I really can't see how you can view the quote of mine that you used as 'negative'. I agree that the way this has been done is unfair on those riders who look likely to miss out this year, and I wish a better way could have been found to even the teams out, but your suggestion that Coventry should be allowed to track whatever team they want, regardless of how that affects others, is just laughable. Just HOW desperate to win something are you?!!! For the first time EVER I have to agree with Dekker - first time for everything and all that!!! In general people only want to see a winning team. There will be always be the die-hards who support no matter what, but the 'floating' fan will only come if the local team is doing well. I'm sure someone will say that it should be aimed at the 'die-hards' not the fair weather supporter but the truth is that promoters NEED the extra support, and MONEY, that the floating supporter brings. By saying 'I'm alright jack - tough for you' and keeping all the good riders between two or three tracks, you're condeming other tracks to decline and eventual demise. I get sick and tired of seeing the same teams now - how bad would it be with only four or five?!!! The thing I like about speedway is that you DON'T get one club running away with everything year after year. Whilst I hate losing riders each close season, it makes it interesting to see the different tactics people use for team buliding (ie top heavy vs solid etc). As I've said before, it also means that' hiowever bad a season you have one year, you know you'll be back on an even footing with the other teams come March. YOU may see that as a bad thing but personally I think it's one of Speedway's strengths!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scunny Stag 72 Posted December 1, 2003 I've read with interest the 12 pages of this thread and I have a lot of sympathy with Elite League fans. However it will be interesting to see what effect the drop in standard has on the silent majority. I like to think that the poorer clubs will stand a chance of competing and overall the crowds won't drop and with all due respect I don't think the strong views on here really represent the average watcher. Most on here are way too fanatical to be considered average. What I do see is the top riders who are frozen out in 2004 coming back in 2005. The league will have to relax the team building limit of 19 and probably go back to a rider's average limit. Either way the riders who earnt their 'valuation' in 2003 are going to be worth much more than a rider with the same valuation earnt in 2004. I guess the only rule that would need to be relaxed is the one where ther is only one rider in categories A & B. However with riders like Harris, Howe, Janniro, Norris, Barker, Stead, Ulamek, Gjedde, Lyons, Screen almost certain to obtain 'B' status so that is just a formality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted December 1, 2003 Lupus and Scunny Stag Can I just add my support to the common sense that is quoted in the two postings above. Everyone can't always have there own way but, as they have pointed out, there is the possibilies of good coming out of all of this. Time will tell. You have to remember the views that internet fans have do not represent the majority of stadium fans. On this forum there seems to be a rejection of AGM rules by about 9 to 1 but in the Speedy Star their vote was about 50/50. In the stadium who says they are not in favour with a wish to suck it and see ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted December 1, 2003 Lupus - You'll be shocked to hear that I do agree with you on at least one point. The fact that everyone starts even (on paper anyway) is one of speedways greatest strengths. It's a points limit that gives us this though. The grading system may back fire big time and produce some very uneven teams. Obviously I could be completely wrong on everything I've said, but the potential for things to go t1ts up really scares me. The future is very unsure. Is the grading here to stay? If so I think we are going to have huge problems in '05. '04 will produce a lot more grade A and B riders as the league will be much easier. Riders who underacheived this year through injury particularly, and the up and coming riders such as BJ and David H could be the ones to suffer. Using those two, and lets say Mark, Joe, Jason L, David N, Dean B (perhaps with easier rides could get into the top two grades), where are they going to ride? If grading disappears for '05 then, as someone has suggested, riders on inflated averages next year will be dropped for riders such as Lukas, PK etc who are clearly better riders, but will be on similar averages. Like I say none of us know how things will turn out, but I think a lot of us are just recognising the early warning signs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Meynell 2 Posted December 1, 2003 (edited) On this forum there seems to be a rejection of AGM rules by about 9 to 1 but in the Speedy Star their vote was about 50/50. Tsunami, As someone once said, there are lies, damned lies and statistics, so I don't pay much attention to what's published in the Speedway Star. The magazine's management is close to the 'powers that be' and I'd be wary of the manner in which they present the balance of opinion. They might be getting only one letter for the changes and ten against, but if they only publish one of each, it gives a quite misleading impression of prevailing opinion. With respect to the voting, it always depends on how you ask the questions. Simply asking 'Do you think the proposed new rider grading system for team building purposes is a good idea?' without providing any details on how the system actually works, is a laughable and highly flawed way of conducting an opinion poll. Having asked some of my more casual speedway acquaintances, I've found every one of them to be against the changes. Edited December 1, 2003 by Kevin Meynell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekker 239 Posted December 1, 2003 Dekker if you genuinely believe I am wrong have a look round a few of the other forums and see what public opinion is. Very few of the posts elsewhere support your arguement that there should be no limitts to teams in speedway. What many say are that the cuts being made now to support the new teams are too severe and need to be lookedat again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy Munchie 0 Posted December 1, 2003 totally agree with you Dekker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekker 239 Posted December 1, 2003 totally agree with you Dekker Eeeeeeeek Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lupus 1 Posted December 1, 2003 (edited) Flipping heck Dekker, me and Crazy Munchie in one day - you must be losing your touch!!! Edited December 1, 2003 by lupus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylor 0 Posted December 1, 2003 (edited) Can't say I'm losing too much sleep over this. For the EL teams to cut costs, of course they need to 'lose' top riders, initially to the teams moving up. The promoters may have gone too far for a first step but a side effect of there being a surplus of better quality riders is that the laws of supply and demand will prevail. In other words the riders may realise they need to cut their demands if they want to ride in the UK. We may consider that squeezing out the greediest of them (in each grade) could be good for those interested in keeping costs (and admission prices?) down and encouraging more PL sides to move up. If this is the intention of the changes it's not surprising that the promoters would keep tight lipped about it. Let's hope they've done it with the best of intentions and that the EGM will tidy up some of the ragged edges highlighted here. Edited December 2, 2003 by Mylor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
