frenchy 0 Posted February 4, 2011 Hi, Can anyone give me the heat details of the League matches raced between Coventry & Southampton in 1958 please ? The Southampton home match was on the 20th May 1958 whilst the return at Coventry was on the 18th August 1958. Also, does anyone know if the Belle Vue vs Ipswich Britannia Shield (North) match was raced ? Was the score from the rain abandoned meeting between the two sides on the 10th May allowed to stand ? Cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve19620 26 Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Here you go with the heat details: Southampton 60 Coventry 36 20/5/58 Ht 1: Taylor, Young, Squibb, Mattingley 64.8 Ht 2: Hole, Bradley, Forrest, Nicholls 65.8 Ht 3: Waterman, Duval, Mountford, Hanham 66.2 Ht 4: Squibb, Golden, Mattingley, Owen (f) 65.8 Ht 5: Bradley, Duval, Mountford, Hole (f) 66.0 Ht 6: Taylor, Squibb, Forrest, Nicholls 65.0 Ht 7: Waterman, Mattingley, Hanham, Young 65.4 Ht 8: Taylor, Duval, Squibb, Mountford 64.8 Ht 9: Bradley, Young, Hole, Mattingley 65.0 Ht10: Taylor, Young, Duval, Hole (ef) 65.2 Ht11: Forrest, Waterman, Hanham, Mattingley Time N/K Ht12: Forrest, Squibb, Hanham, Mountford 64.8 Ht13: Bradley, Golden, Duval, Nicholls 65.0 Ht14: Golden, Forrest, Waterman, Owen 64.8 Ht15: Young, Bradley, Hanham, Nicholls 65.0 Ht16: Forrest, Taylor, Young, Waterman 64.6 Coventry 53 Southampton 43 16/8/58 Ht 1: Crutcher, Young, Mattingley, McAuliffe 67.0 Ht 2: Soderman, Taylor, Mountford, Golden 68.8 Ht 3: Bradley, Lightfoot, Forrest, Squibb 69.2 Ht 4: Crutcher, Mattingley, Nicholls, Hole 68.4 Ht 5: Bradley, Mountford, Soderman, Squibb 69.4 Ht 6: Young, Mattingley, Golden, Taylor 70.2 Ht 7: Crutcher, Forrest, Lightfoot, McAuliffe 69.0 Ht 8: Young, Bradley, Squibb, Mattingley 69.2 Ht 9: Taylor, Lightfoot, Golden, Forrest 69.0 Ht10: Crutcher, Soderman, Mountford, McAuliffe 68.8 Ht11: Young, Mountford, Hole, Squibb 70.0 Ht12: Forrest, Bradley, Taylor, Mattingley 70.0 Ht13: Crutcher, Nicholls, Golden, Soderman (exc) 69.4 Ht14: Mountford, Lightfoot, Taylor, Hole 70.0 Ht15: Forrest, Bradley, Soderman, Golden 70.4 Ht16: Crutcher, Young, Bradley, Lightfoot (exc) 69.0 Note this match was raced on 16th August At this stage I am unable to confirm whether the Belle Vue v Ipswich Britannia Shield fixture was ever restaged. Cheers Steve Edited February 4, 2011 by steve19620 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve19620 26 Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Hi again I have checked my Speedway Stars (The last published league table for the Britannia Shield is up to October 10) - match was not restaged at this point. So it seems highly likely this fixture was never restaged. Regards Steve Edited February 4, 2011 by steve19620 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted February 4, 2011 Hi again I have checked my Speedway Stars (The last published league table for the Britannia Shield is up to October 10) - match was not restaged at this point. So it seems highly likely this fixture was never restaged. Regards Steve BTW see Dick Bradley had good scores in both those fixtures Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frenchy 0 Posted February 5, 2011 Hi again I have checked my Speedway Stars (The last published league table for the Britannia Shield is up to October 10) - match was not restaged at this point. So it seems highly likely this fixture was never restaged. Regards Steve Hi Steve, Many thanks for the info. re the Britannia shield match, it was really that I wondered if they'd decided to allow the abandoned match between the 2 clubs to stand, looks like not especially as the final between the group winners was at the end of August. Bob - pretty impressive away full maximum from Brian Crutcher too (defeating Young twice on his home track). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted February 5, 2011 H Frenchy -true re Crutcher beating Jack Young-I'd forgotten he'd come back to UK and joined Coventry-does anyone know why he quit in the first place-I think he took a year off in 1957-perhaps because West Ham closed in 56-nevertheless he was earning good money and why pass it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,137 Posted February 6, 2011 My understanding of the position at the end of 1955 was that Youngie announced he would not be returning from Australia for the 1956 season as he was missing his family and wanted to see his children grow up. It was only after this announcement that West Ham closed its doors as the management knew that without him they were up against it. Even with him they had finished bottom of the league and crowds had dropped alarmingly; without him they had nothing much to offer and feared an even bigger drop in the gate, so they shut up shop at the end of the 1955 season. Why he returned in 1958 I'm not quite sure. Maybe he'd had enough of seeing his children grow up by then! But, of course, although he was still a good rider, he was not the dominant force he had been from 1950 - 55 and it's not really surprising that Brian Crutcher was able to beat him twice at Coventry. By then, Crutcher was one of the top riders in the world, just a shade behind Fundin, Briggs, Moore and Craven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted February 7, 2011 My understanding of the position at the end of 1955 was that Youngie announced he would not be returning from Australia for the 1956 season as he was missing his family and wanted to see his children grow up. It was only after this announcement that West Ham closed its doors as the management knew that without him they were up against it. Even with him they had finished bottom of the league and crowds had dropped alarmingly; without him they had nothing much to offer and feared an even bigger drop in the gate, so they shut up shop at the end of the 1955 season. Why he returned in 1958 I'm not quite sure. Maybe he'd had enough of seeing his children grow up by then! But, of course, although he was still a good rider, he was not the dominant force he had been from 1950 - 55 and it's not really surprising that Brian Crutcher was able to beat him twice at Coventry. By then, Crutcher was one of the top riders in the world, just a shade behind Fundin, Briggs, Moore and Craven. Thanx Norbold for that interesting info-so Jack Young came back in 1957 , when did he finally quit and was his second stint with Coventry the whole time?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,137 Posted February 7, 2011 He came back in 1958. He stayed at home in Australia again in 1959, then came back for two more years, 1960 and 61. He rode for Coventry in all three years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frenchy 0 Posted February 9, 2011 My understanding of the position at the end of 1955 was that Youngie announced he would not be returning from Australia for the 1956 season as he was missing his family and wanted to see his children grow up. It was only after this announcement that West Ham closed its doors as the management knew that without him they were up against it. Even with him they had finished bottom of the league and crowds had dropped alarmingly; without him they had nothing much to offer and feared an even bigger drop in the gate, so they shut up shop at the end of the 1955 season. Why he returned in 1958 I'm not quite sure. Maybe he'd had enough of seeing his children grow up by then! But, of course, although he was still a good rider, he was not the dominant force he had been from 1950 - 55 and it's not really surprising that Brian Crutcher was able to beat him twice at Coventry. By then, Crutcher was one of the top riders in the world, just a shade behind Fundin, Briggs, Moore and Craven. Norbold, Whilst I understand what you mean, the final League averages for 1958 for Young & Crutcher make quite interesting viewing (I've included averages for both teams rather than just the individuals & these averages include bonus points) - Southampton Alby Golden 5.74 Jimmy Squibb 6.33 Dick Bradley 8.39 Chum Taylor 7.73 Brian Hanhan 6.57 Johnny Hole 5.25 Brian Crutcher 10.03 Brian Brett 0.00 Split Waterman 7.47 Leo McAuliffe 5.60 Coventry Jack Young 10.02 Arthur Forrest 8.00 Nick Nicholls 4.46 Ron Mountford 6.64 Maury Mattingley 5.47 Les Owen 2.62 Peo Soderman 7.78 Jim Lightfoot 6.88 Reg Duval 4.89 Eric Hockaday 4.67 0.01 of a point difference between them (and that could be more a computer rounding issue than anything) Crutcher's League record is 77 rides 189 points 4 BP He was a late starter in 1958. Though as I don't have complete records for all of '58 he may have been making a come back from an early season injury, but the first meeting I have details of him for was against Belle Vue on the 17th June. It looks like he was a replacement for Split Waterman who disappeared from the Saints line up when Crutcher started riding for them. Whilst Young was with the Bees all season long. His League record being - 97 rides, 237 points & 6 BP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,137 Posted February 9, 2011 That's very interesting, frenchy, thanks. Without the figures in front of me I hadn't realised Youngie had been so successful in 1958. Perhaps I wrote him off too soon! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frenchy 0 Posted February 9, 2011 That's very interesting, frenchy, thanks. Without the figures in front of me I hadn't realised Youngie had been so successful in 1958. Perhaps I wrote him off too soon! Unfortunately I don't have a lot of info on 60 and 61 but what I have gives Young a league only average in 1960 around 9.5 and in 1961 around 8. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,137 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Yes, I think I was probably thinking more of 1960 and 61 than 1958. Youngie was still heat leader class but not the same class as he was in the early 50s. However, I did see him several times at New Cross during that period and I have to say I will never forget the two individual meetings he won towards the end of 1961 - the King of the South Cup and the Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy. To win both meetings he had to beat the Big 5 plus most of the other leading riders of the time. I felt it was a real privilege to see Youngie in those two meetings as he rode as he must have done at his peak in the early 50s. Edited February 10, 2011 by norbold Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sotonian 610 Posted February 9, 2011 Crutcher's League record is 77 rides 189 points 4 BP He was a late starter in 1958. Though as I don't have complete records for all of '58 he may have been making a come back from an early season injury, but the first meeting I have details of him for was against Belle Vue on the 17th June. That is correct. He rode in the Saints' opening home match and then broke a collar bone at Poole. A hoped-for two week absence became two months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
