Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted July 25, 2011 How you can call the short comings of both promotions Len Silvers fault is beyond me. How people can suggest the Hawks racing solely at Lakeside would have made them successful is also a lot of rubbish (stronger word should be used but it's a family forum ). Hopwood (Who is now a Rye asset) and Freemantle aside, all the Hawks had previous Rye connections. Whilst Owen and Hazelden are both Hammers assets, if there wasn't the Hawks they would both be Rye NL riders this season anyway. It is a real shame the venture hasn't worked, it could have been fantastic for both parties if promoted properly, the message to both promotions should really be, you only get out what you put in. I hope Rye will continue to track a NL team, in the form of the Raiders (Not Cobras, such a poor team nickname) from 2012 onwards and carry on bringing through the young Brits. The key words are "promoted properly"... Only one of the two tracks did this and I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Rye House!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 533 Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) i said this at the begining of the season ,dudley works for a different reasons ,if you live there you would understand ,it is an area that dosent have sports teams to follow and is very proud of its industrial history and its history in general ,i dont think there is another ex track that can realisticly be sucessfull at another track ,but also wolves is a short car/bus even walk to get to from dudley all these factors are what make dudley work and hackney or any other team not really work .i really dont think teams riding at other tracks is the way forward for speedway ,although i fully support people tryng to resurect their ex teams ,on a tuesday night at wolves it is not all the wolves fans plus a few cradley fans that have come back to the sport ,it is all cradley fans and most of the wolves fans dont go, i really hope that dudley get a new stadium cause the heathens back in the top flight speedway riding against wolves really is what speedway is all about, i was at lakeside last friday and the crowd didnt look to bad for a national league meeting ,just another quick point, as big as dudleys crowds are i know of some cradley fans that wont go to watch dudley cause they think that dudley have pinched the heathens name , i hope the hackney name is not lost to the sport but i dont see it working any where else except at hackney London is a very diffierent kettle of fish but.............. You could argue your points for any industrial town really. I think the reason Dudley works is because it is actively promoted they have good links with local media and press (maybe the Nigel Pearson factor)they have a thriving supporters club and the promotion appear to have good communication lines with the supporters. All this takes time and a lot of good will. I am certainly not saying the other promotions are not doing what they can to promote their team, often they have all on to get the stadium up to standard for meetings and I have already stated that promoters cant do right for doing wrong but that is what I see Dudley's success as. Add to this the fact that the Dudley supporters dont support the NL they support Dudley speedway but that is all they can hope for right now as a homeless team and I'm sure they all live in hope that Dudley one day will go EL and i'm pretty sure the press releases when Dudley first returned made it clear Dudley Would eventually become Cradley when all those boxes were ticked. Edited July 25, 2011 by TMW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westhamboy66 599 Posted July 26, 2011 At no extra cost I believe... £16 for a PL/NL double header is not to be sniffed at! Credit where credits due good value. Shame though i doubt i'll bother to stay as i get bored after five hours. While everyone complains about the track the thing that does me at the moment is the time taken to run meetings these days. The Brit under 19 could have been a decent meeting but at 3 hours plus I lose interest. Yes there are unavoidable delays due to crashes etc but there are just too many stupid delays with refs being the main cause due to a lack of urgency. There was a time when i loved double headers but now each meeting is 2+ hours and along with the interval for track prep it's just too much poncing about Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westhamboy66 599 Posted July 26, 2011 The key words are "promoted properly"... Only one of the two tracks did this and I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Rye House!! The National league is there to promote youth, nothing more nothing less and i doubt there is another Promoter alive who has done more than Len Silver in this regard. Certainly not Jon Cook. Personally i hope we retutn to the Raiders brand for next year and give the Rye faithful another team to support rather than alienate most Rye fans with the Hacks brand. Nothing against the movement to get Hackney back but if Arena were serious about it they would have tapped into the Hammers connection and gone for a West Ham team. However being successful in this venture was not a prime objective for Cook and Co it was simply as a fixture filler with the league formula leaving holes in the Arena programme. I said this in the beginning and it remains my view. Think Jon Cook has tainted his name in all this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squall 270 Posted July 26, 2011 no way will I travel to Sheffield to watch a home meeting. The lads must be so happy to have your support. It is still the same team no matter which track they are riding on, just like "Hackney" was "Rye House" riding at "Lakeside". The only loser in your stance is you. The double header vs Buxton and Stoke was fantastic, and I expect IOW/BV will be good too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THE DEAN MACHINE 4,756 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) London is a very diffierent kettle of fish but.............. You could argue your points for any industrial town really. I think the reason Dudley works is because it is actively promoted they have good links with local media and press (maybe the Nigel Pearson factor)they have a thriving supporters club and the promotion appear to have good communication lines with the supporters. All this takes time and a lot of good will. I am certainly not saying the other promotions are not doing what they can to promote their team, often they have all on to get the stadium up to standard for meetings and I have already stated that promoters cant do right for doing wrong but that is what I see Dudley's success as. Add to this the fact that the Dudley supporters dont support the NL they support Dudley speedway but that is all they can hope for right now as a homeless team and I'm sure they all live in hope that Dudley one day will go EL and i'm pretty sure the press releases when Dudley first returned made it clear Dudley Would eventually become Cradley when all those boxes were ticked. dudley promotion do a great job with the supporters but the fan base has always been there even when there was no hope of a track return , 2 things matter in dudley ,a mosque or should i say the not building of a mosque and the speedway , go into any town/city and search for a speedway link ,its hard to find ,even before the rebirth of dudley you dont have to search for long , its in the media everywhere ,its in the black country museum and talk to anyone in the black country, its a big part of what put the black country on the map and that is not the case in other towns around the country, go into any town ask any one to name a speedway rider and they will say barry briggs or ole olsen if they have even heard of speedway ,ask the same question around dudley and its penhall, gundersen ,although the track closed in the 90s the club never did and thats why its successsfull today Edited July 26, 2011 by THE DEAN MACHINE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted July 26, 2011 The key words are "promoted properly"... Only one of the two tracks did this and I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Rye House!! How did Lakeside promote better than Rye then, facts to back up your point please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June 203 Posted July 26, 2011 The lads must be so happy to have your support. It is still the same team no matter which track they are riding on, just like "Hackney" was "Rye House" riding at "Lakeside". The only loser in your stance is you. The double header vs Buxton and Stoke was fantastic, and I expect IOW/BV will be good too. Dead right squall.....I lose you gain. Glad your enjoying our team! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted July 26, 2011 I think the difference is that Lakeside/Hackney/Ryehouse is not an ownership by teams in the same league... Sheffield and Scunthorpe are a local derby in the PL and to go to Sheffield and support the Scunfield Saints would fell crazier than attending a Hackney meeting with an ownership combination of a PL and an EL team... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keef 105 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) dudley promotion do a great job with the supporters but the fan base has always been there even when there was no hope of a track return , 2 things matter in dudley ,a mosque or should i say the not building of a mosque and the speedway , go into any town/city and search for a speedway link ,its hard to find ,even before the rebirth of dudley you dont have to search for long , its in the media everywhere ,its in the black country museum and talk to anyone in the black country, its a big part of what put the black country on the map and that is not the case in other towns around the country, go into any town ask any one to name a speedway rider and they will say barry briggs or ole olsen if they have even heard of speedway ,ask the same question around dudley and its penhall, gundersen ,although the track closed in the 90s the club never did and thats why its successsfull today Same in Swindon, people that have never been to speedway have heard of Leigh Adams, and all the over-40s would mention Briggo, Kilby and Ashby from the 60s/70s. It has a speedway heritage, with the likes of Coventry, Poole, Wolves, Kings Lynn, Cradley/Dudley, Workington, Ipswich etc., Would be interesting to see if Bristol return in 2012, as they were the best-supported club in the late 70s. Is that bloody horrible Station Hotel in Dudley still there? Worked for a company in Tipton, and had the misfortune to stay there. Edited July 26, 2011 by keef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 533 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) dudley promotion do a great job with the supporters but the fan base has always been there even when there was no hope of a track return , 2 things matter in dudley ,a mosque or should i say the not building of a mosque and the speedway , go into any town/city and search for a speedway link ,its hard to find ,even before the rebirth of dudley you dont have to search for long , its in the media everywhere ,its in the black country museum and talk to anyone in the black country, its a big part of what put the black country on the map and that is not the case in other towns around the country, go into any town ask any one to name a speedway rider and they will say barry briggs or ole olsen if they have even heard of speedway ,ask the same question around dudley and its penhall, gundersen ,although the track closed in the 90s the club never did and thats why its successsfull today It's my opinion it's not up to the teams to run suporters clubs, as I said before they have a big enough job maintaining ageing stadiums and tracks on a shoe string, it is up to the supporters themselves to get together and promote their sport in their local towns and cities. There is always an implication, on here particularly, that the promoters have some kind of magic wand that will bring the crowds flocking back yes the teams need to have a good communication channel between team and supporters but if the supporters don't want their sport to die out then get out there and promote it. Which is, I imagine how Dudley and Leicester have kept the dream alive for so long. To be honest because the sport is flagging the home grown riders are to not many young boys going to speedway meetings saying that is what I want to do when I grow up. Edited July 26, 2011 by TMW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted July 26, 2011 How did Lakeside promote better than Rye then, facts to back up your point please. Well I've already pointed out the 'facts'.. At Lakeside, Hackney was promoted as, er, Hackney. A very good separate programme produced with an excellent retro Hackney styling. Rye - as I'm sure all you RH fans have pointed out.. - made zero effort to promote the separate Hackney Hawks identity.. I mean not even bothering to change the prog cover to show it was Hackney rather than RH is a pi$$ poor effort and says it all really... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted July 26, 2011 Well I've already pointed out the 'facts'.. At Lakeside, Hackney was promoted as, er, Hackney. A very good separate programme produced with an excellent retro Hackney styling. Rye - as I'm sure all you RH fans have pointed out.. - made zero effort to promote the separate Hackney Hawks identity.. I mean not even bothering to change the prog cover to show it was Hackney rather than RH is a pi$$ poor effort and says it all really... The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waco 1,026 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption. Ben you and i know the reason for this venture.. How many of his hammers fans did John Cook think were going to support the Hawks .Its well documented that Elite league fans dont support the lower leagues in any numbers.. No ammount of promotion was going to make this project succeed ..Prices of admission are the main problem at this level and need to fall in line with other tracks... It is to be hoped that Len can recover the situation and that we will have a team in this league next season called the Raiders..But you could not blame Len if we dont.. Edited July 26, 2011 by waco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted July 26, 2011 Ben you and i know the reason for this venture.. How many of his hammers fans did John Cook think were going to support the Hawks .Its well documented that Elite league fans dont support the lower leagues in any numbers.. No ammount of promotion was going to make this project succeed ..Prices of admission are the main problem at this level and need to fall in line with other tracks... It is to be hoped that Len can recover the situation and that we will have a team in this league next season called the Raiders..But you could not blame Len if we dont.. I totally agree Waco, however if there was no Rye NL team it would be terrible for British speedway IMO, especially with talents such as Morley, Hazelden, Owen and Freemantle, I doubt they would all be accommodated at other NL tracks if Rye wasn't running, whilst none are ready to step up full time to the Premier League, without NL riding to help them develop. In an ideal world, the Raiders will return, entrance fees will drop and fans will come back from the wilderness to watch Rye House's very own National League side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
