Youth Development

[TMW 533]

Having read the press release from the Lakeside. There seems to be moves by British Promotions to get things moving. The newly formed Colts together with the existing set ups not going to name all. Hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel. This, I imagine, wont happen over night but lets watch this space and see if all the hard work pays off and lets get behind all these ventures

 

http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.13503.6

Edited October 8, 2011 by TMW

[speedy bill 154]

Having read the press release from the Lakeside. There seems to be moves by British Promotions to get things moving. The newly formed Colts together with the existing set ups not going to name all. Hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel. This, I imagine, wont happen over night but lets watch this space and see if all the hard work pays off and lets get behind all these ventures

 

http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.13503.6

They have left it 10 years to late but letts now hope they will make a start on finding a new british champ.Trouble is the amount of non britts in our teams,They must now be reduced if the current young britts are to get a chance,the premire league is a disgrace with the amount of non britts now in there teams.Britts in these team as a example Redcar 2 Leicester 1 Berwick 1 Newport 1Glasgow 2 ect shame on you all take a leaf out of Sheffield and Rye House s book sheff 4 rye 5 have got it right.So come on B S P A SHOW SOME BALLS limit the non britts per team to 3 and give the National League riders somewhere to go give em team places to move up into or we will never produce another P C OR Mort in the next ten years.I think there is room for non britts but dont bury us in them.Let the crappy Elite league have them they deserve them .

[scribbler 213]

They have left it 10 years to late but letts now hope they will make a start on finding a new british champ.Trouble is the amount of non britts in our teams,They must now be reduced if the current young britts are to get a chance,the premire league is a disgrace with the amount of non britts now in there teams.Britts in these team as a example Redcar 2 Leicester 1 Berwick 1 Newport 1Glasgow 2 ect shame on you all take a leaf out of Sheffield and Rye House s book sheff 4 rye 5 have got it right.So come on B S P A SHOW SOME BALLS limit the non britts per team to 3 and give the National League riders somewhere to go give em team places to move up into or we will never produce another P C OR Mort in the next ten years.I think there is room for non britts but dont bury us in them.Let the crappy Elite league have them they deserve them .

 

Don't forget Scunthorpe... also 5 Brits and, until this season producing young Brits without Sheffield. They have had 3 riders move up to the EL and have supplied several riders doubling up in the PL this season, as well as those already in the PL who started with them... all this since 2005

[vog 200]

They have left it 10 years to late but letts now hope they will make a start on finding a new british champ.Trouble is the amount of non britts in our teams,They must now be reduced if the current young britts are to get a chance,the premire league is a disgrace with the amount of non britts now in there teams.Britts in these team as a example Redcar 2 Leicester 1 Berwick 1 Newport 1Glasgow 2 ect shame on you all take a leaf out of Sheffield and Rye House s book sheff 4 rye 5 have got it right.So come on B S P A SHOW SOME BALLS limit the non britts per team to 3 and give the National League riders somewhere to go give em team places to move up into or we will never produce another P C OR Mort in the next ten years.I think there is room for non britts but dont bury us in them.Let the crappy Elite league have them they deserve them .

 

So, limiting PL teams to 3 non brits. There are currently 14 PL teams. Let's assume that they all stay. That's 56 places that have to be filled by British riders (4 per team)

 

There are currently 39 (If I counted correctly) Brits in the PL. That doesn't include riders with duel nationality (Byron Bekker, Dakota North etc)

 

Where would the extra 17 Brits come from?

 

Or, put another way, which 17 NL riders could step up and be good enough for the PL right now. Looking at the averages from the 6th September from the NL averages thread, the top 10 break down as follows:

 

7 Current PL riders (Howarth, Kurtz, Irving, Lambert, Newman, Branford, Brundle)

3 Former PL riders (Simmons, Armstrong, Atkin)

 

Of the top 10 NL only riders, we have to go down to number 20 in the list to find the 10th best non NL rider.

 

Of those 10, 1 actually now has a PL club (Garrity)

8 are former PL riders

1 has never been declared in a PL team AFAIK (Ben Hopwood)

 

Let's take it one step further. At the last declaration in the NL, there were 70 riders in teams 1-7's.

 

Current PL riders: 11

Former PL riders: 24

So HALF the league is current or former PL riders. Most of the former ones will be riders not looking to step up (Felton, Atkin, Armstrong and the like)

 

By all means, the leagues need to do more to encourage British talent, but simply going straight into "3 foreign riders only" would be a minefield, especially given freedom of trade laws within the EU. There is more chance of starting slowly with both reserves having to be British at the start of the season.

 

EDIT TO ADD:

 

Realistically, the NL finds itself at a crossroads. You have about half of the teams as stand alone teams (Stoke, IoW, Mildenhall, Buxton, Dudley (I class them as stand alone due to very little shared promotion between themselves and Wolves)) who are going to do everything they can to win. You then have the other half using the league as a training league to bring through new riders (Scunthorpe are the prime example this season. The youngsters that they blooded last season have shown the way this year). While there is that clash, it is very difficult for promoters to bring talent through, as this league gets more and more competitive each year.

Edited October 8, 2011 by vog

[speedy bill 154]

Ok smart chappie, lets say each team must only have britts at reserve all season.And also must have a minnimum of 3 britts per team how dose that grab u .Also no non brit are allowed to double up in any of the leagues.

[scribbler 213]

Realistically, the NL finds itself at a crossroads. You have about half of the teams as stand alone teams (Stoke, IoW, Mildenhall, Buxton, Dudley (I class them as stand alone due to very little shared promotion between themselves and Wolves)) who are going to do everything they can to win. You then have the other half using the league as a training league to bring through new riders (Scunthorpe are the prime example this season. The youngsters that they blooded last season have shown the way this year). While there is that clash, it is very difficult for promoters to bring talent through, as this league gets more and more competitive each year.

 

Scunthorpe, as you say, prove that development is possible to develop talent and be successful. As well as last seasons success you can look at other NL teams and see that some of Scunthorpes talents were quickly signed by other teams, Buxton - a standalone club - also have been successful in bringing on talent and being successful.

 

 

 

Perhaps stricter rules on who can ride in the NL might be helpful. Several riders have found their level in this league - or have been blocked from progressing by the heavy reliance on foreign riders in the PL. One experienced over 25 is good for any team but - for the good of British speedway - are too many experienced (but non-progessing) riders in one team good for British speedway or the NL? Perhaps at least one of the reserve berths ought to be for new British riders only in each team. That should not affect standalone clubs too much...

 

Just ideas... nothing more...

[TMW 533]

Riders are given an opportunity in the PL but if they don't fire over night then they are dropped. Newcastle, Sheffield, Scunthorpe to name a few have stuck with their decisions to keep Worrall Worrall Newman and Birks. Well done to them. These will be even better next year and that in my opinion is development. Others like A Morris, to nmae one, have been subject to the revolving door practice and others like Knight, Kerr, Perry have never been given a chance, I am assuming, as I imagine they would have snapped up the chance if it was given to them. these are just examples there are many more.

 

Unfortunatley there is a huge pressure on the reserves to win meetings for the teams EG Morris glasgow. That is no good for developing youngsters, too much pressure too soon. I feel this is why youngsters are struggling they cant just focus on the riding the trackcraft and racing skills. Pressure needs to be taken off the reserves and put back onto the H/L and with in reason the S/S who have developed all those skills. The main focus of the PL and to a certain extent NL is to find that outstanding reserve and not develop one.

[June 203]

I would just like to say that what Scunny has been able to do to help bring on the youngsters over tha past few years through lots of very hard work by; Mr Godfrey, Richard and Anne Hollingsworth, Graham and all other helpers in extremely cold weather through the winters has been amazing. This is what I call "developing youth" seeing is beleiving! Most weekends me & hubby have been there watching the kids. seems like we've been watching the likes of young Robert Lambert for ages. (thats just singling one out ) Nothing gives us more pleasure than to see how these kids improve by the week. Admittedly Mr Godfrey can use his stadium whenever he wants and has done. Watching the likes of the Worrall twins, Birks, Irvin and Wrathall etc ( who can get loads of practice ) develop makes me feel proud of the Scunny gang. I'm sure there are other tracks where work of this nature takes place. ( I hope so anyway ) The problem is where do these youngsters progress? surely it has to be in the N/L maybe stand alone clubs who show no interest in giving these kids team places should aim to be in the prem league? unsure. I'd like to see at least one, preferably 2 british reserves for a full season, be a good start! Its certainly worked for Stevie Worrall at Scunny. some of his passes in his last match at Scunny was brill.

[vog 200]

Ok smart chappie, lets say each team must only have britts at reserve all season.And also must have a minnimum of 3 britts per team how dose that grab u .Also no non brit are allowed to double up in any of the leagues.

 

Only have Brit's at reserve all season is an interesting one that can be done one of 2 ways. Either say that both reserves at the start of the season must be British (Or declared to ride for GB...again, Byron Bekker etc) and they stay at reserve all season, irrespective of average, or say that you're 2 reserves at the beginning of the season must be British, but if their averages change to above the top 5, they move up.

 

As for 3 Brits per team, plausible, especially when coupled with the 2 Brits at reserve policy. The only problem facing the "2 British reserves" potential rule would again be numbers. Currently 12 of the 28 reserves in the PL are British, a couple of which with averages that would make it hard to get a ride at reserve. If you assume 10 can stay at reserve, you are left with looking for 18 new riders, all British, all reserves...

[TMW 533]

I'd like to see at least one, preferably 2 british reserves for a full season, be a good start! Its certainly worked for Stevie Worrall at Scunny. some of his passes in his last match at Scunny was brill.

 

My point exactly Steve has stated in the SS himself he was dissapointed with some of his performances and couldn.t understand why. A candidate, in my opinion, of some team's revolving door practice. So well done to Scunny for sticking with him and hopefully next year wil be a better year for him.

 

It's no good giving the lads 2 or 3 odd PL meetings to see 'how they go'. They need full seasons.

 

You can be 'in it too win it' and develop riders if you have the right set up as proved by Buxton last year with Branford Garrity and Morris. I think hoping to replicate it year in year out would be a little over optimistic and I would say a league dominated by 2 or 3 teams would be a pretty boring league anyway.

Most teams have all had turns at the top 4 over the last 4 seasons although Kings Lynn's spell was as Boston but I'm sure their time will come.

Edited October 9, 2011 by TMW

[vog 200]

The problem is where do these youngsters progress? surely it has to be in the N/L maybe stand alone clubs who show no interest in giving these kids team places should aim to be in the prem league? unsure. I'd like to see at least one, preferably 2 british reserves for a full season, be a good start! Its certainly worked for Stevie Worrall at Scunny. some of his passes in his last match at Scunny was brill.

 

Just to take the point about progression, it does seem to appear that there are teams who want to win, and teams who view their "victory" as seeing riders promoted into their, or others, PL teams. Stoke, for example, will probably only want to take a 3 point Brit if they feel he can improve for them that season, whereas Scunthorpe showed last season that they want riders who are able to progress (And they reaped the benefits this season)

 

So where do you go? A look at Stoke's team shows that we are going to have to lose riders for next season. A young Brit or 2 who have improved well this season will be looking for a new team, and if they don't make the step up to PL, could find themselves scratching around for work.

[Vince 9,459]

The problem could be solved by not allowing foreign riders to drop below their assesssed averages and not allowing loan fees for British reserves. That way teams will only use foreign riders with potential to improve and we will see an end of foreign 4 point riders being over here for years. Perhaps not allowing loan fees will encourage promoters to let young British riders have enough time to find their feet.

Other things that would help would be only to allow British riders to become club assets after a full season of being in the team ( would have to be some provision for matches missed through injury)

Reserve's only allowed to replace other riders when withdrawn through injury. That would avoid the need to have a super strong reserve as a potential match winner.

Track time, a way has to be found to get the kids the time they need to improve.