kaiser 3 Posted November 8, 2011 Carter - most Americans Most indeed, with the exception of the Moran brothers(Kelly was one of his best friends in speedway). I seem to remember some rivalry between Mort and Al Grahame, well some bad blood anyway. Pretty sure they had a couple of major ding dongs!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ImpartialOne 160 Posted November 9, 2011 Carter v Sigalos One of my favorite speedway tv moments, England v USA, 1984, Swindon when Shawn Moran got excluded for touching the tapes in one race, and in the next race Carter hit the tapes prompting Sigalos to signal to the referee to exclude Carter, which he did. Carter's interview was classic! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted November 9, 2011 Gundersen - Nielsen was the first to come to mind. Both great riders and ultra dedicated. They had their ups and downs and I know Gundersen's injury hit Nielsen like a train. Together they were formidable and as opponents fiercely competitive. During probably their biggest rivalry in 1985 when Nielsen was left out of the Danish test team by Team Manager and Erik's mentor, Ole Olsen, they were still able to enjoy a friendly rivalry when Nielsen bet Gundersen he couldn't quit smoking. I can't remember who won or what the stake was but it showed they were still good mates behind all the problems. I think it was much more Nielsen v Olsen than Nielsen v Gundersen in terms of any anomosity. Nielsen and Gundersen had a tremendous amount of mutual respect. I saw them riding against each other time and time again when Oxford and Cradley clashed, and not once can I remember the two having an on-track incident. Nielsen & Knudsen came together all the time (it eventually overspilled into the 1985 and 1986 World Finals), but never Nielsen & Gundersen. Hans was still a great speedway rider after Erik's injury, but not quite as good. He would no longer take as many risks. Hans became something of a gater at British League level, something he certainly hadn't been before. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Carter v the Collins bros (Peter & Neil) Carter v Sigalos Carter versus everyone expect Neil Evitts, the Moran brothers, Simon Wigg and Erik Gundersen. All the best Rob Edited November 9, 2011 by lucifer sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted November 9, 2011 Evitts v Tatum Carter v Sigalos I'd be interested in hearing more about these two. I recall Carter virtually running Sigalos into the pits bend fence on his way to winning the 82 BLRC (maybe a bit of revenge on the yanks for LA?). On Tatum - Evitts, I don't know much about that particular rivalry. But from what I - and others - have seen, it seems Evitts was prone to the odd grudge or two. I recall a few coming-togethers with Andy Smith and Evitts, which reached its nadir with Evitts leaving Smudger in the Odsal fence with a broken leg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ImpartialOne 160 Posted November 9, 2011 I'd be interested in hearing more about these two. I recall Carter virtually running Sigalos into the pits bend fence on his way to winning the 82 BLRC (maybe a bit of revenge on the yanks for LA?). On Tatum - Evitts, I don't know much about that particular rivalry. But from what I - and others - have seen, it seems Evitts was prone to the odd grudge or two. I recall a few coming-togethers with Andy Smith and Evitts, which reached its nadir with Evitts leaving Smudger in the Odsal fence with a broken leg. Evitts was a very hard rider, he took no excrement off anyone, which I liked. He doesn't suffer fools and has had plenty of fall outs with people over the years, on and off the track but equally he's quite misunderstood and is a great loyal guy if you don't cross him. I don't recall the spat with Tatum either so I can only assume it was a one-off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew 125 Posted November 9, 2011 Evitts/Tatum...I think it was at the 1987 British Final? Evitts certainly was hard,he and Jan Steachmann used to have ferocious battles at Owlerton back in 1991/92. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted November 10, 2011 Evitts was a very hard rider, he took no excrement off anyone, which I liked. He doesn't suffer fools and has had plenty of fall outs with people over the years, on and off the track but equally he's quite misunderstood and is a great loyal guy if you don't cross him. Agreed. I thought he walked the line of being a very hard rider and being a dirty rider. But he was always watchable. I'd put Preben Eriksen in the same bracket. Apparently - like Evitts - he too is a very nice chap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted November 10, 2011 wolves v cradley , dudley wolves trophey matches , in the ermolenko/correy v hancock/hamill years were imo the best speedway meetings ive ever seen , it wasnt speedway it was war, to a wolves or cradley fan , the league ,koc and any other trophey were irrevelent, it was all about those 2 meetings You forgot to include you guys in that too. Some of the best meetings you could hope to see were some of the DWT meetings on the Aug Bank Holiday. Some of the racing was just brutal. You're right, nothing else mattered other than beating Wolves (or Cradley from your point of view). We used to count success as to who won more meetings between the two rather than where we were in the league or how far we got in the cup. Greg and Ronnie used to have some superb races. Good clean racers the pair of them back then, but Billy and Sam would be happy to knock lumps out of each other. I recall Pratt being interviewed in the early Sky Sports years, which was not too long after we closed, about the season ahead and he said then "I don't care as long as we beat Wolves". As a former Cradley rider and team manager he had his priorities right. The worst on-track incident I've seen happened at Monmore between Karlsson and Hamill. The former put the latter through the turn three fence and when interviewed after the meeting Porky put it something like that was a tough race to which Karlsson replied he should have known what I was going to do and I'd do it again. I should add that I also saw Cross put Ermolenko straight through the first turn fence in an incident that followed Cross being angry at a dangerous move Ermolenko pulled a couple of races earlier. I blame Pratt for this one though because the next time Ermolenko was out he immediately put Cross in as a tac sub when we had better options for the points. It was pure revenge and everyone knew it - the fans were chanting Psycho as he came out just waiting for it to kick off. Cross didn't even wait for the exclusion light if I remember right, he just turned around and went straight back to the pits, took his helmet off and sat down. I can also remember an incident between Stephen Morris and Scott Smith in a morning DWT meeting. For once Smith was the innocent party and he threatened to 'have him' in the evening meeting. Morris never turned up for the second leg. I was fortunate to see quite a few of these during the Hancock, Hamill, Cross, Ermolenko, Correy, Karlsson era during the nineties. It always felt better at Monmore as the crowd was more mixed. Two very evenly matched teams on the night could bring on some very heated races. Karlsson sticking his middle finger up at the Heathen faithful on the first turn after a win and usually getting a few waving back in return.. I always felt it was better at Monmore for the atmosphere on the terrace. This is only really because we had a very good turn out of Heathens fans, literally hundreds, and we all stood together between the tapes and first turn. The form book went out the window and anything could happen on the night. It was probably the most bizarre sense of pure hatred mixed with speedway's typical friendliness. We would all be singing and chanting at the riders or the opposition fans all night and yes there were plenty of gestures but there was never any trouble beyond people mouthing off at each other. The riders helped, or made it worse depending on your view point. From the second the riders came out on parade they were booed, with the task drowning out the Wolves fans' cheers, let alone the stick they got if anything happened. In fact I think Sam got booed every lap he passed us. And who can forget that glorious night in '93 when the title slipped through Wolves' fingers and into the grasp of the Aces. There were more Heathens fans there that night than BV fans!! Wonderful wonderful memories and I fear that's all they will ever be. Even if we returned to EL racing next season (no suggestion that it's likely - just saying if) I don't think we'd see scenes quite like those of yesteryear again. I don't think the rivalries on track any even close to those we saw back then. I don't today's riders would be able to understand what it meant to the fans. It would be just another meeting racing against, in many cases their friends or former team mates or even current team mates. In the past only the very top riders rode elsewhere and many many riders were largely considered career club riders. They felt it as much as we did and I just don't think that could be replicated these days - at least not without some considerable time of it being explained to them by the like of Hamill/Hancock/Cross/Big Al/Jan O/Gundersen etc During probably their biggest rivalry in 1985 when Nielsen was left out of the Danish test team by Team Manager and Erik's mentor, Ole Olsen... I think you may be mistaken. I have the England vs Denmark Test from Brandon '85 on tape/DVD. I recall that in commentary the off track problems are referred to. Nielsen was not left out of the team. He refused to ride. He was named in the team as reserve and was present. But when he was called upon he refused to come out and ride. I also recall it being something of an embarrassment for England on the day. Gundersen was riding but was having appalling bike problems and with Nielsen refusing to ride the Danes were effectively without the top two riders in the world but still won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ImpartialOne 160 Posted November 10, 2011 I think you may be mistaken. I have the England vs Denmark Test from Brandon '85 on tape/DVD. I recall that in commentary the off track problems are referred to. Nielsen was not left out of the team. He refused to ride. He was named in the team as reserve and was present. But when he was called upon he refused to come out and ride. I also recall it being something of an embarrassment for England on the day. Gundersen was riding but was having appalling bike problems and with Nielsen refusing to ride the Danes were effectively without the top two riders in the world but still won. That does sound about right actually. I too have a copy of the meeting but haven't watched it for probably 15 years. However, there were things going on before that and the very fact that Olsen put Nielsen at reserve was an insult and I think that was why Nielsen refused to ride. It was clear that Olsen was playing games with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted November 10, 2011 That's a good point actually. It may well have been that Olsen named him at reserve which is why he refused to ride rather than he refused to ride in the first instance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miro 9 Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) That's a good point actually. It may well have been that Olsen named him at reserve which is why he refused to ride rather than he refused to ride in the first instance. This episode is rarely if ever mentioned in the endless Nielsen/Gundersen debate. Olsen named Nielsen as reserve for the meeting at Oxford, I know he came out on parade but I don't remember if he rode, you would need Rob Peasley for the detail. It was an awkward and unnecessary thing, and robbed the public of seeing Nielsen in his proper role on the day. Edited November 10, 2011 by miro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 10, 2011 Jack Millen and Frank Auffret for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted November 10, 2011 This episode is rarely if ever mentioned in the endless Nielsen/Gundersen debate. Olsen named Nielsen as reserve at for the meeting at Oxford, I know he came out on parade but I don't remember if he rode, you would need Rob Peasley for the detail. It was an awkward and unnecessary thing, and robbed the public of seeing Nielsen in his proper role on the day. Rob will be able to recall what colour socks they both wore! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted November 10, 2011 Rob will be able to recall what colour socks they both wore! Nielsen was named at reserve for the opening test, but never rode. The second test was at Oxford, with Nielsen again at reserve. The Danes already had fellow reserve Jens Rasmussen in the race, then one of the Danes went through the tapes. So the option was: Nielsen comes out or only one Dane in the race. Nielsen said he would only come out if Olsen directly asked him to, but Olsen refused. In the end, it was the Oxford management who persuaded Hans to take his place in the race. He was caught cold, and trailed behind the England pair. Rasmussen then went through the tapes (probably intended - Jens was a good friend of Hans) prompted a second race for Nielsen, and he won that one. That's how I remember it anyway, have to dig out the programme to confirm events. Oh, and Nielsen had red socks, while Olsen was wearing stockings and suspenders All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
