NIGE9359 8 Posted November 12, 2011 It's a shame - I used to enjoy sunday afternoons at QM, can't go on a saturday as the last train home is just before 9.00 but I gave up mid season as I got my fingers burned a couple of times when I bought advance train tickets only to find out the match had been called off by the management for various scheduling reasons Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 533 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) I hope you dont take this the wrong way, because I certainly mean no malice, but you clearly don't understand the situation with the Dudley set-up at Wolverhampton. As has been said previously, the Dudley fan base is made up of largely of die-hard ex Cradley fans who have been looking for a home for donkeys years. Very few fans go to both Wolves & Dudley matches. You make it sound like the Wolves 2nd team, which it certainly is not. We have a team to support at a temporary home until we can find our own stadium. For that we are certainly most grateful to the people at Wolverhampton Speedway and Ladbrokes, but to imply that resurrecting the Heathens name is just a marketing gimmick is a very poorly informed point of view. 'Ommer 'Um And there lies the secret the teams draw from 2 different fan bases and not relying on the same fans to turn out. People who support EL probably wouldn't turn out in large numbers even if it is to support the future they would probably wait till the future reaches their level. There are some die hard NL fans out there but the Dudley thing is different. I'm sure the Dudley fans given the choice would go PL or EL but that is probably inconcievable until a track is found and as the original press release said they will become Cradely when that happens. I hope somebody is working full time on getting this track as the fans deserve it but i'm sure as and when they do get their own track they will be waving bye bye to the NL. The ideal thing would be for the NL to go Amatuer but that wouldnt help the lads already struggling and certainly wouldnt attract riders from other disciplins which has kept the NL going recently. Edited November 12, 2011 by TMW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) And there lies the secret the teams draw from 2 different fan bases and not relying on the same fans to turn out. People who support EL probably wouldn't turn out in large numbers even if it is to support the future they would probably wait till the future reaches their level. There are some die hard NL fans out there but the Dudley thing is different. I'm sure the Dudley fans given the choice would go PL or EL but that is probably inconcievable until a track is found and as the original press release said they will become Cradely when that happens. I hope somebody is working full time on getting this track as the fans deserve it but i'm sure as and when they do get their own track they will be waving bye bye to the NL. The ideal thing would be for the NL to go Amatuer but that wouldnt help the lads already struggling and certainly wouldnt attract riders from other disciplins which has kept the NL going recently. Dudley Heathens is an entirely different entity to any other NL team! Dudley have evolved out of the old top flight Cradley Heath set up which was one of the, if not the biggest supported and passionate fanbases in the Country. They are certainly no Wolves 2nd team (although in essence they do act like that for local NL basedriders) and no gimmick from the Wolves promotion like the Hackney team was this season. In fact they only started cause Cradley still had a large fanbase despite not running at their track since 1995. If Cradley got their own track they could probably go straight into the EL cause the fanbase would support that level. As for the NL becoming completely amatuer, thats never going to happen. Theirs always been a conflict of interests in the NL with standalone teams needing to have experienced riders in order to attract a crowd and 2nd teams of higher League tracks running basically a junior outfit in order to produce riders. Also tracks that get decent crowds like Mildenhall, Dudley and Stoke will pay their riders more which is fair cause the riders should share in the clubs profits cause afterall the crowds are there to see the riders race. Anyway the money that probably 75%+ of NL riders receive as payments for points they score wouldn't go anywhere near covering their costs. Also the NL has to remain open for standalone tracks otherwise Stoke would of probably closed last season, Mildenahll wouldn't of reopened and other tracks in the past unable to afford PL or EL would of fallen by the wayside! Edited November 15, 2011 by 25yearfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 533 Posted November 12, 2011 It will also be interesting to see which of the top riders make themselves available to the NL this year as a lot will want to focus on PL and guest bookings in the EL I imagine and those who for whatever reason have not made the grade may retire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted November 12, 2011 Shame there will be no NL speedway at Newport but if this move ensures that speedway survives at the venue then it is a neccessary evil! All in all Newport speedway deserve credit for maintaining 3rd tier racing at the venue as long as they have when they have struggled for crowds and other more successful tracks don't run, or have have abandoned NL speedway much sooner! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greyhoundp 990 Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Such a shame to be losing a team from the NL. I, like a few others, thought that Newport may run NL only for a while as the financial risk is lower. Of course, it would have been a loss to the PL in that case so either way it's sad for us to be losing a club. Fingers crossed that the locals come out in force next season and the future of the sport in Wales is secured. Best wishes to all down there. It's far from a clever marketing ploy. The association with the Dudley name is keeping a lot of Heathens fan away because DMBC appear to have done, and continue to be doing, jack all to help us find a new name. Make no mistake it's extremely controversial and largely very unpopular. But after 14 years of no speedway the name is a small price to pay and many, like myself, don't acknowledge the Dudley part of the name anyway. The Wolf Cubs raced in the old CL for a while. It was dropped by Wolverhampton Speedway due to low turn out. Birmingham Bulls have raced some meetings at NL level and been well supported I believe. Yes, i will 2nd what 21st says about the local Council, it is an insult to the Heathens name to even have it associated with this Council, just to be called The Heathens would be enough, yes it is very unpopular, and hopefully the promotion will see sense and drop the name. To everyone who doesnt know, the Wolves and Heathens put up with each other, but that is all, if any Wolves fan comes along to watch a Heathens meeting, then it is the hope that they will see them lose, and vice versa. Edited November 14, 2011 by greyhoundp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted November 15, 2011 Calling the NL team Dudley is just an attempt to persuade the ignorant Council that having a well supported team in their Borough would be so beneficial for so many reasons! I'm sure off the record, the Dudley promotion share the supporters complete discontent for not only Dudly Council but their neighbouring Councils as well considering the ridiculous way Cradley speedway has been treated since the early 90's! The Wolves Cubs CL team of a few years back wern't well supported so its doubtful the Wolves promotion would consider such a venture unless it was heavily subsidised. From what I've heard the few Birmingham Bulls meetings at Perry Bar wern't well supported either. Unless you have a special case like the Heathens, who are really an EL set up without a track (noone else like the Heathens fans!) or Rye House where Len Silver bankrolls the 2nd team, running 2 teams at one track has never worked cause people don't support the 2nd team in enough numbers. It didn't work at Belle Vue in the late 60's when crowds were much bigger than today, nor King's Lynn at the same time. In modern times Poole probably get the biggest crowds in the Country yet they couldn't afford to keep subsidising their loss making NL team Bournemouth who also ran home meetings at Wimbourne Road. This is why I respect Scunthorpe for keeping 3rd Division racing going as long as they have cause they don't get big crowds for their PL meetings! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted November 15, 2011 In modern times Poole probably get the biggest crowds in the Country yet they couldn't afford to keep subsidising their loss making NL team Bournemouth who also ran home meetings at Wimbourne Road. This is why I respect Scunthorpe for keeping 3rd Division racing going as long as they have cause they don't get big crowds for their PL meetings! Poole may have been making a loss - but, as the saying goes, you have to speculate to accumulate. Poole, with all the money they have, prefer to buy success rather than 'grow' it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boston five 16 Posted November 15, 2011 totally agree the money thats paid to nl riders is pea nuts poole could well run a nl side i wonder what they pay to get over sea,s riders i would think the cost of one would pay for a season of nl racing looking back think of all the local lads who have rode for poole Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted November 15, 2011 Probably true about Poole! In the case of Newport Hornets (always prefered the Mavericks nickname cause I can still remember Rochdale Hornets from the 1970's!)if crowds were as low as 50 thats unsustainable especially with the Wasps team getting poor crowds there in the PL! Why aren't EL and PL tracks running NL reserve teams given some subsidy out of the BSPA pot to run NL teams? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted November 15, 2011 Probably true about Poole! Why aren't EL and PL tracks running NL reserve teams given some subsidy out of the BSPA pot to run NL teams? Because the EL promoters don't really care about the sport - only about the money that they can line their own pockets with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backless 538 Posted November 16, 2011 Because the EL promoters don't really care about the sport - only about the money that they can line their own pockets with Excellent answer. Pithy & to the point. Insightful. Setting aside Hackney being shared between Rye House & Lakeside (the latter looking at establishing a team of their own for next year), we have Belle Vue & King's Lynn on one hand (9 teams & Lakeside in the EL)& Scunthorpe & Newport on the other (13 teams & Rye House in the PL). Now, only two of those four are either considering of have already not running next year. But, damn those money grabbing EL promoters Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backless 538 Posted November 16, 2011 Probably true about Poole! In the case of Newport Hornets (always prefered the Mavericks nickname cause I can still remember Rochdale Hornets from the 1970's!)if crowds were as low as 50 thats unsustainable especially with the Wasps team getting poor crowds there in the PL! Why aren't EL and PL tracks running NL reserve teams given some subsidy out of the BSPA pot to run NL teams? Pot? There's a pot? Dateline Saturday, AGM: first point of order: WHAT POT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted November 17, 2011 Excellent answer. Pithy & to the point. Insightful. Setting aside Hackney being shared between Rye House & Lakeside (the latter looking at establishing a team of their own for next year), we have Belle Vue & King's Lynn on one hand (9 teams & Lakeside in the EL)& Scunthorpe & Newport on the other (13 teams & Rye House in the PL). Now, only two of those four are either considering of have already not running next year. But, damn those money grabbing EL promoters EL promoters have Sky money. They could put a small percentage into a BSPA pot for the development of young British riders. They won't do it - they've already had a GB manager resign because the BSPA wouldn't put enough money in IIRC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backless 538 Posted November 17, 2011 EL promoters have Sky money. They could put a small percentage into a BSPA pot for the development of young British riders. They won't do it - they've already had a GB manager resign because the BSPA wouldn't put enough money in IIRC. Oh yeah, I fogot: they're awash with money. Whether it's right or wrong, in keeping with any other sport that "benefits" from the "Sky riches", it's ploughed into wages. Or maybe you're suggesting a further weakening of EL levels (if that's possible & still be able to differentiate from PL sides) to save cash to put into "the pot". So you're just ignoring that, however small, a higher percentage of EL teams have connection with NL teams than do the PL. Never let a fact get in the way of a prejudice... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
