Robbie B 262 Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) People on the forum what to see the best riders contest the GP series, but with only 15 places available there will always be riders missing out. So maybe a shake-up in the GP series is needed to allow more riders to compete. This is not like the old style KO formula. And would have only requires four extra races on the night. Using 24 riders including one wild card (the SGP series seems to like them and I doubt if they will ever be disposed off). The riders would be split into two different groups depending on their GP points standings. (I’m using the standing after the Scandinavian GP). Groups are split into odd and even GP standing numbers. The top four from each group would then contest the semi finals. In the first Semi Final the first and third highest points scorers from Group A would met the second and fourth highest point scorers from Group B. In the second Semi Final the second and fourth highest point scorers from Group A would met the first and third highest points scorers from Group B. Rider who came first and second in both of the semi finals to contest the Grand Final. The points scoring for both the semis finals and grand final would be 4-3-2-1. Each group would consist of 12 heats with all riders having each gate, once only. At the end of the GP season the bottom seven riders would met the top nine from the GP qualifying final in a GP Challenge, where the top seven riders from this meeting would qualify for the following seasons GP series. As there would be no need for any current GP rider from this series to contest the qualifiers this would allow more new riders to have a chance of qualifying for the GP series. The heats could be raced one heat from Group A then from Group B etc, etc Let me know what you think of the idea. Group A 1 Chris Holder 2 Nicki Pedersen 3 Jason Crump 4 Fredrik Lindgren 5 Andreas Jonsson 6 Chris Harris 7 Bjarne Pedersen 8 Kenneth Bjerre 9 Niels-Kristian Iversen 10 Darcy Ward 11 Grigory Laguta 12 Kryzstof Kasprazak Group A Heats 1 1-2-3-4 2 6-5-7-8 3 9-10-11-12 4 5-9-1-11 5 8-3-10-6 6 2-4-12-7 7 11-1-6-3 8 10-8-5-2 9 7-12-4-9 10 4-11-8-1 11 12-6-2-10 12 3-7-9-5 Group B 13 Greg Hancock 14 Tomasz Gollob 15 Emil Sayfutdinov 16 Antonio Lindback 17 Hans Andersen 18 Jaroslaw Hampel 19 Peter Ljung 20 Martin Vaculik 21 Tai Woffinden 22 Michael Jepsen Jensen 23 Matej Zagar 24 Wild Card or Jurica Pavlic or Ryan Sullivan Group B Heats 1 13-14-15-16 2 18-17-19-20 3 21-22-23-24 4 17-21-13-23 5 20-15-22-18 6 14-16-24-19 7 23-13-18-15 8 22-20-17-14 9 19-24-16-21 10 16-23-20-13 11 24-18-14-22 12 15-19-21-17 Please note that heat formula is something that I found on the Internet it's not perfect and for that reason it just showcases the idea. Depending on the riders point scores they would be paced into Group A for odd numbers placings in the points scoring chart or Group B for all the even numbers placings in the points scoring chart for the next GP. This way both groups will change riders regularly and could add some extra excitement during the season. Edited September 10, 2012 by Robbie B Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi 49 Posted September 10, 2012 With out going right through the numbers. 1 and 11 meet 3 times out of 4, and 1 doesn't meet 7,10 or 12. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie B 262 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) With out going right through the numbers. 1 and 11 meet 3 times out of 4, and 1 doesn't meet 7,10 or 12. This is just a formula for 12 riders that I found on the web. I'm sure a better formula could be used. This no perfect formula that you can use. 16 riders over 20 heats all riders have a particular gate more than once. They only perfect formula is to have 4 riders racing over 16 heats using all the available gates permutations, but no-one would pay to watch that. But the idea was of showing a way that more top class riders could ride in a GP. After all everyone wants there favourite rider to be in the GPs.. Edited September 10, 2012 by Robbie B Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) This is just a formula for 12 riders that I found on the web. I'm sure a better formula could be used. Not really. There's no way for 12 riders to meet each other and ride against each other the same number of times unless there are 33 heats. Clearly not practical. That's the beauty of the 16-rider, 20-heat format. It's not perfect, but it's as near to perfection as you can get within a practical format. If the SGP went to 24 riders again, I think I'd stage 4 groups of 6 riders competing in mini round robins (12 heats), followed by a knockout (maybe repechage) format. That way every rider would ride against every rider in the same group at least once, although riders would still meet one other rider twice. However, this inherit 'unfairness' could be resolved by seeding. Edited September 10, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,994 Posted September 10, 2012 Thought they cut the numbers due to costs,so i can't see them wanting to transport 23 riders equipment to NZ instead of 15 riders for a starter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blazeaway 1,501 Posted September 10, 2012 Er, there's nothing wrong with the current formula... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted September 11, 2012 Er, there's nothing wrong with the current formula... 16 riders isn't really enough for a GP series, although I don't think the organisers want to increase costs by adding more riders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blazeaway 1,501 Posted September 11, 2012 16 riders isn't really enough for a GP series, although I don't think the organisers want to increase costs by adding more riders. 16 riders is plenty. Adding more will reduce the quality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted September 11, 2012 16 riders is plenty. Adding more will reduce the quality. It's a pretty poor indictment of speedway if the sport's premier competition can't find more than 16 riders of acceptable quality. In fact, it can't even find 16... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LagutaRacingFan 1,936 Posted September 11, 2012 16 is fine if you get the best 16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted September 12, 2012 We're having a superb GP this season, with some great racing, a title race which looks like going right down to the wire, and (IMHO) the best and fairest points system the GP has had - why would you try to tinker with that formula? The football Euro Champs is a classic example - it's a brilliant tournament, normally a super standard of football, and 16 teams works perfectly for a tournament in which practically every match has something hingeing on it. Of course some very good teams have missed out on qualifying, hence the move now to a more bloated 24 team tournament, at which the standard will not be so high, and the format not as "clean". I agree with Blazeaway, that to increase the numer would dilute the quality of the riders. Yes some good riders may miss out, but that's sport. It's a pretty poor indictment of speedway if the sport's premier competition can't find more than 16 riders of acceptable quality. In fact, it can't even find 16... You really don't believe there are 16 riders of suitable quality around currently? And surely practically ANY sport (golf might be a exception?) you are going to dilute the quality if you go from 16 to 24 participants? TBH I can't see an increase happenning, as others have mentioned cost being the main factor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted September 12, 2012 Of course some very good teams have missed out on qualifying, hence the move now to a more bloated 24 team tournament, at which the standard will not be so high, and the format not as "clean". Well yes, but there are only 50 or so countries in 'Europe' so nearly half will qualify for the new bloated tournament. By contrast, there are far more than 50 speedway riders in the world (maybe a thousand or so all told). And surely practically ANY sport (golf might be a exception?) you are going to dilute the quality if you go from 16 to 24 participants? Yes, but by that definition you should only have the top four or five riders in any competition, which is clearly not desirable. F1 currently has 24 drivers and the top tennis tournaments have 128 players, yet no-one seriously suggests the fields should be smaller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted September 12, 2012 Valid points Humphrey. However, I'd suggest F1 would probaby not be devalued if it dropped to 16 drivers. Tennis tournaments are straight knock out affairs (hence a larger number of particpants can be used) and I'd also suggest the gap between a player ranked say ten and a player ranked 100 is a lot smaller in tennis than in speedway. But also most sports have a certain number which just mathematically works - for tennis its 128, for the Football World Cup I'd say its 32, for the Euros I'd say its 16 (I think the Rugby World Cup would benefit from dropping to 16) for SPeedway I think 16 is the number that "just works." I'm really looking forward to next year's GP, as assuming the "right" qualifiers from the challenge (say NKI, Vaculik, MJJ) you'd have a line up next year where potentially any of the riders (exceptions perhaps being Tai and MJJ) could be rostrum contenders, and some top quality riders would miss out on the top 8. Outside of that, I'd say you're really only missing G Laguta of the rider's you'd expect able to make an impact, although there's a plethora of young Polish talent (Pawlickis, Dudek, Janowski, Zmarzlik) who could make the grade over the next couple of years. To me, that indicates that they have the numbers right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,373 Posted September 14, 2012 16 rider is fine but perhaps point scoring should be altered slightly ,think semi-finalists should be awarding some more points for qualifying even if they finish last .Certainly been a good series this season apart from the usual gate and go tracks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backless 538 Posted September 14, 2012 God Almighty, it would be great to have TWENTY FOUR riders to pay for (and 23 to absent themselves from league racing because they're "overworked") The resultant tickets prices would guarantee Cardiff would be packed to the rafters... with a crowd the size of the Itralian GP. 16 is fine if you get the best 16 16 - so that'll include Jason Bunyan in the New Zealand GP then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
