Mildenhall V Dudley - Weds 24th October - Please Read - NOW AT KINGS LYNN

[Arson fire 4,785]

I've watched the video from both angles and I'm also of the opinion that Roynon held his line and Stefan changed his line so dramatically that Adam had nowhere to go. There's no way a rider would purposefully 'flick' their back wheel into an rider when they are so close, mainly because of how foolishly dangerous that is and also because it would give Roynon no benefit whatsoever. If he did that on purpose then he's creating wheelspin and that would allow Stefan through. Why would he do it? Simple. That was a result of Stefan completely cutting Roynon's nose off at a point in the track where you're supposed to be getting your wheels in line to head down the straight.

 

We all know what an awesome person Adam is and he is an extremely fair rider that never makes rash and dangerous moves - he's always very calculated and weighs up every move before doing so - what people suggest he 'did' on here is just not in his nature.

 

Anyway get well soon dude - fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.

he did mount the kerb and barge lindgren out the way at newcastle recently....so that's not entirely true....but yes on the whole Adam is a fair, quality rider....gets well soon I hope.

[BWitcher 12,453]

No question that Nielsen dramatically changes direction as he comes off the bend from the outside to the inside but I am not sure that's the issue here. Its what happens when he gets into the gap between the two Dudley lads that counts. Having looked at it several times, he seems to me to go straight

 

No need for you to say anything else HT.

 

Riders do not normally go straight when they are yet to exit the corner, they are drifting out. Its why riders hate it when someone turns 'left' on them.

 

I do totally agree with you regarding the 'need' to exclude someone though.

Edited October 26, 2012 by BWitcher

[rami 14]

Wouldn't that have been easier to say in the first place and I didn't accuse you of making it up or lying, so you admit it was hearsay, as I said evidence from the ref would have been a blue light it's the way things are decided not by messages in the pits, as you say you are Ashley Morris's mechanic perhaps you can also confirm the fact that Ashley punched Stefan in the face after the incident on track ht 4 ? I was standing overlooking the pit and saw this happen !

 

Just thought i would pop back to see if you had the decency to apologise for accusing someone of doing something that thye clearly didnt do - should have known you wouldnt - how is the weather in your own little world by the way!

[Ommer Mon 381]

The incident is just a racing incident with no malice intended by any rider out there. I just want to make my feelings on that perfectly clear, but I can't see how Roynon can be considered at fault. Allow me to play amateur accident scene investigator.

 

Roynon rides the inside for the entire race up the point of contact. I don't think anyone would dispute that. In the image below the two riders can be seen (sorry for poor quality - phone snap off lap top) at the apex of turn 3/4 with Nielsen way out wide and Roynon right around the inside.

 

https://twitter.com/...8/photo/1/large

 

On the next image look where the riders are now. This is barely even coming off the turn. Roynon is still right around the inside. Nielsen is now also around the inside. By Nielsen's own admission (ITV Anglia clip) he "thinks" he can turn back and "squeeze" in between the Heathens lads. Look at the two riders body position. Nielsen has his left leg out, his backside off the seat his shoulder dipped (either his should or elbow in Roynon's ribs) and hanging off the bike. Just to the right hand edge you can see the back end of Morris' machine. Nielsen, by his own admission remember, is trying to turn to the inside of Morris' position to squeeze between the two riders. Roynon has held his line. Nielsen is still trying to change his line to get inside Morris.

 

https://twitter.com/...8/photo/1/large

 

Some have pointed to the back of Roynon's bike 'flicking' out. But why did that happen? As we can all see that Roynon holds the inside line for the whole lap and Nielsen makes a dramatic change to the line he's ridden. What effect has that had? From the image above we can see that Roynon's front end has been forced in toward the centre of the track as a result of being leaned on. The front end of the bike being slowed by contact and the rear wheel driving the bike hard has the effect of making the back end step out toward the outside as the front end is slowed and pushed inward. That's just simple physics but it does explain why people think Roynon 'flicked' the back end out. It's the contact on the front end that makes this happen.

 

Also, on the image you can see just how small the gap between Roynon and Morris was and remember that Nielsen is aiming for this gap which is tight to the inside from a far outside line when he was in the middle of the corner. Roynon can't just stop or disappear. He's already there, and had been throughout the race.

 

The conclusion I draw is as follows: Roynon held his line. Nielsen changed his line dramatically. Nielsen leans on Roynon. Nielsen admits trying to squeeze between the Heathens which is an admission he changed his line and that he knew how tight it was. The contact is sufficient to force Roynon's bike into changing direction. It's just racing with no malice but Roynon absolutely cannot be held accountable for the decisions Nielsen took in trying to come from behind to overtake the riders in front of him.

 

 

I have to say that I agree with 21st Century Heathen's analysis.

 

The Youtube video and Anglia TV footage do make it look as though Adam takes a look and flicks out a back wheel at Stefan. It looks bad but it is deceptive as what it does not capture is the abrupt change of line from Stefan.

 

Referee's make good calls and bad calls and I have seen plenty of both in my time but the advantage the Referee has over all of us is that he is in an elevated position and can see the lines that riders are taking. For those who have never watched racing from the Ref's box believe me it does make a big difference. That means that the Ref's first call is usually best and that videos are often used only to prove in close up whether there has been any contact or not. That's clearly not an issue here.

 

On that basis if his first call was that Stef should have been excluded (and I have no proof of that) then that is what he should have stuck with and the fact that he appears to have changed his mind after a visit from Chris Louis is incredible. Chris should know better then to go to the box and the Ref should certainly know better than to engage him in discussion before giving a decision.

 

To go on a slight detour here was a contributory factor the fact that we have playoffs in the National League? (and this is not just because we finished top of the table). The situation put all four of them under enormous pressure and this is a League which is for relatively inexperienced riders. Just a thought.

 

Our sympathies have to go to Adam. We all know his story. He is very down at the moment and who can blame him. A highly talented rider and a great lad too! We've really enjoyed his company at Dudley over the last 2 years. We all hope he will get over this and best wishes to him for the future whatever he decides that this will be.

[TMW 533]

It has to be said on reflection, but for the aid of a replay the Ref probably would have gone for Nielson from his vantage point. It just goes to show the fortunes can soon turn with the flick of a play button

[Super Blue 616]

It has to be said on reflection, but for the aid of a replay the Ref probably would have gone for Nielson from his vantage point. It just goes to show the fortunes can soon turn with the flick of a play button

 

A shame that replays are needed but had they not been , the correct decision probably wouldn't have been made and the wrong team would be league chmpions now .

 

But I do see your point .

 

Whichever way a decision goes I would prefer it be the right one , so if it needs replays then so be it !

[stansolo 12]

At the end of the day the team that finishes TOP of the league are the TRUE champions.

 

This play off crap is basically lip service to the BSPA and SKY tv ....

 

 

Id just like to shout out table toppers Dudley Heathens IMO "CHAMPS" .......................end of...

[villiers210 61]

A shame that replays are needed but had they not been , the correct decision probably wouldn't have been made and the wrong team would be league chmpions now .

 

But I do see your point .

 

Whichever way a decision goes I would prefer it be the right one , so if it needs replays then so be it !

The problem is though, it seems that it wasn't the video that swayed the referee, but a certain official who should have not even been there.

[SteveEvans 248]

At the end of the day the team that finishes TOP of the league are the TRUE champions.

 

This play off crap is basically lip service to the BSPA and SKY tv ....

 

 

Id just like to shout out table toppers Dudley Heathens IMO "CHAMPS" .......................end of...

 

Except for that's not the rules. Any team that finishes top of the table but loses the play offs will always make this claim. But the rules that all teams vote on in their AGM are the rules.

[Super Blue 616]

I have to admit in any sport that I believe the team that finishes top at the end of their league season should be crowned as champions but that's just not the way it is in speedway !

 

The teams that have finished top in all 3 levels of Speedway have all failed in the play offs and are not league champions !

 

Although this may be something to be pondered by the powers that be the whole play off system was set up to keep interest going in the league for more clubs .

 

Is there a better way ? I'm not sure .

Edited October 27, 2012 by Super Blue

[TMW 533]

The problem is though, it seems that it wasn't the video that swayed the referee, but a certain official who should have not even been there.

 

You can't blame Louis for trying. If that is the case then the integrity of the Ref should be brought into question. They should have the power of their own conviction to apply the rules and hold their nerve. Shouldn't hold a Ref's licence i'd say.

[villiers210 61]

 

 

You can't blame Louis for trying. If that is the case then the integrity of the Ref should be brought into question. They should have the power of their own conviction to apply the rules and hold their nerve. Shouldn't hold a Ref's licence i'd say.

I beg to differ, but yes you can when it is clearly an infringement of the rules. Chris Louis AND the referee both have questions to answer here. Edited October 28, 2012 by villiers210

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Chris Louis AND the referee both have questions to answer here.

 

I agree and its why I also agree with Dudley's protest even if it must not be allowed to affect the result.

 

Quite clearly the rules of the sport state that only a team manager or the clerk of the course is allowed contact with the referee during a meeting so Chris Louis should be made to answer why he went to the referee's box at that time. Even if that was solely to view the video evidence, he should be warned about future conduct and reminded of the particular rule.

 

Dave Robinson, however, has a far more serious case to substantiate. He is either not aware of the particular rule (which is disastrous) or he chose to ignore it (which is worse) choosing to do so at a point when the NL title hung in the balance and Louis' presence would clearly result in allegations of influence (which is worse still). The fact that Louis was in the box is entirely Robinson's responsibility.

 

Don't hold your breath, though. I suspect that in true BSPA style this will swept under the carpet.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[TividaleHeathen 11]

I agree and its why I also agree with Dudley's protest even if it must not be allowed to affect the result

 

The Dudley management have already confirmed that the result will stand, they are only protesting that Chris Louis was in the referees office which is againt the rules of the sport!!

[Massey Harris 47]

This is an SCB issue and won't go near the bspa.