Belle Vue Aces Vs Poole Pirates 29/4/2013

[JC! 142]

SORRY but you are missing the point. Speedway, like it or not, is unique. Replacing one of your top two let alone both with virtual novices simply doesn't work. You can cover for absent players in cricket to a certain extent but not speedway. And, I repeat, it is the fans who we are considering here.

 

Of course it would have to be properly policed (again, an independent adjudicator) and postponements not permitted for just any spurious reasons. But in exceptional circumstances surely the option should be available. EL tracks have relatively few fixtures these days (BV one home meeting in May I believe), Scott Nicholls says he has just 38 UK meetings this year, that there must be some slack in the fixture schedules.

 

The bottom line, as with any business and it is just that, is the customer. They are being ripped off, whether it was at Belle Vue on Monday or Coventry on the same night.

 

Every sport is unique, surely? There is no facility for calling off a meeting in these circumstances, so the discussion of whether there should be is a side issue on this occasion. Belle Vue are far from the first to be in position, but they chose to try to brazenly lie about the situation, and have been caught out massively. I would be interested in the players that you can name from Notts Second XI that could adequately replace Broad Swann and Lumb and perform at even near the same standard to support your argument?

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

I'M not defending BV here ... just asking what the paying customers would prefer under similar circumstances.

 

As for Coventry v Wolves ... I felt like I was being ripped off just watching on TV. But then perhaps the majority of the crowd came from the West and enjoyed the massacre,

[AndyJ 95]

Only if they hadn't informed anyone of the situation.

 

Agreed- but in all seriousness would any promotion advertise along the lines of "we're fielding 2 juniors and R/R instead of 3 of our best riders" and honestly expect many paying customers? Totally agree with the ethics but it'd be financial suicide.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Every sport is unique, surely? There is no facility for calling off a meeting in these circumstances, so the discussion of whether there should be is a side issue on this occasion. Belle Vue are far from the first to be in position, but they chose to try to brazenly lie about the situation, and have been caught out massively. I would be interested in the players that you can name from Notts Second XI that could adequately replace Broad Swann and Lumb and perform at even near the same standard to support your argument?

 

I am certainly no expert on Notts cricket but I would hazard a guess that any players replacing Broad, Swann and Lumb would closer in standard than NL riders replacing Zagar and Zetterstrom at BV. Mind you, how many county games do Broad and Swann compete in?

 

There is no facility for calling off meetings in these circumstances. My question was: should there be?

 

From the outset of this discussion I did point out this was not solely about BV on Monday.

[BWitcher 12,453]

As for Coventry v Wolves ... I felt like I was being ripped off just watching on TV. But then perhaps the majority of the crowd came from the West and enjoyed the massacre,

 

Sorry, but its a ridiculous argument.. apart from maybe KK.

 

This is sport, big wins take place. Was the 7-0 Bayern demolotion of Barcelona over 2 legs a rip off also?

 

Agreed- but in all seriousness would any promotion advertise along the lines of "we're fielding 2 juniors and R/R instead of 3 of our best riders" and honestly expect many paying customers? Totally agree with the ethics but it'd be financial suicide.

 

Yes they would. I've seen Wolves do it on a number of occasions before, including the one I have already mentioned earlier on the thread where they had to track FOUR junior riders. Not PL riders with an average of up to 6, but 4 junior riders, 2nd half junior riders.

 

Every sport is unique, surely? There is no facility for calling off a meeting in these circumstances, so the discussion of whether there should be is a side issue on this occasion. Belle Vue are far from the first to be in position, but they chose to try to brazenly lie about the situation, and have been caught out massively. I would be interested in the players that you can name from Notts Second XI that could adequately replace Broad Swann and Lumb and perform at even near the same standard to support your argument?

 

There is absolutely no comparision between cricket and speedway. A 2nd XI player can come into the 1st XI in cricket and outperform an established player, even a Swann, Broad, Lumb. It happens on a regular basis. A 3pt junior rider will NEVER come into an EL team and outperform a no 1 heat leader.

Edited May 2, 2013 by BWitcher

[cyclone 943]

Perhaps Mr Rising can clarify how other riders competing in Poland managed to return to the UK on Monday ?

 

Furthermore can he cite incidences in other European Speedway leagues where it has been officially permitted to postpone fixtures on the day, because of riders being unavailable due to travel difficulties ?

 

IMO if any club employs several riders who are involved in tight travelling schedules, then they must be aware of such potential risks.

 

Rather than cancel the fixtures in these circumstances, when it becomes apparent that scheduled riders will require to be replaced by junior riders, clubs should be obliged to publicise the situation immediately, including making patrons aware of the situation before they pay at the turnstiles.

Edited May 2, 2013 by cyclone

[JC! 142]

There is absolutely no comparision between cricket and speedway. A 2nd XI player can come into the 1st XI in cricket and outperform an established player, even a Swann, Broad, Lumb. It happens on a regular basis. A 3pt junior rider will NEVER come into an EL team and outperform a no 1 heat leader.

 

Which is, of course, correct. My point originally being that it would not be accepted in other professional sport that a team could brazenly cancel because they do not fancy competing with a weakened team - they just have to get on with it with the resourses they have.

Edited May 2, 2013 by JC!

[Irk Deflector 130]

I'M not defending BV here ... just asking what the paying customers would prefer under similar circumstances.

The simple answer is HONESTY!

 

At another level it is a set of rules/regulations which are put in place, monitored and enforced by an Independent Body rather than a bunch of promoters with nothing but self interest at heart. If having an independent body means the weak fall by the wayside then so be it, at least the sport will prosper!

 

How many promoters are interested in what the paying customers would prefer - you've only got to look at the decisions they make.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Sorry, but its a ridiculous argument.. apart from maybe KK.

 

This is sport, big wins take place. Was the 7-0 Bayern demolotion of Barcelona over 2 legs a rip off also?

 

NO, it was entertaining. Monday night's fare from Brandon was boring. I have plenty of mates, non regular speedway goers, who like watching on Sky. All of them turned-over Monday but loved Tuesday's offering from Scunthorpe. Make of that what you will.

 

 

 

Yes they would. I've seen Wolves do it on a number of occasions before, including the one I have already mentioned earlier on the thread where they had to track FOUR junior riders. Not PL riders with an average of up to 6, but 4 junior riders, 2nd half junior riders.

 

 

 

There is absolutely no comparision between cricket and speedway. A 2nd XI player can come into the 1st XI in cricket and outperform an established player, even a Swann, Broad, Lumb. It happens on a regular basis. A 3pt junior rider will NEVER come into an EL team and outperform a no 1 heat leader.

[TonyE 822]

As I stated in an earlier post, BV were between a rock and a hard place and now that things have moved on, it is the SCB that are in a similar position. There has to be some form of sanction and deciding just what it should be will be a major problem.

 

It is very difficult to formulate rules/regulations to cover every conceivable circumstance and hence the inclinination (by BV) to go down a route that appeared to offer a way out of their predicament.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Perhaps Mr Rising can clarify how other riders competing in Poland managed to return to the UK on Monday ?

 

MY understanding is that they were stranded in Munich, en route from Poland, by problems with Lufthansa caused by strikes.

 

Furthermore can he cite incidences in other European Speedway leagues where it has been officially permitted to postpone fixtures on the day, because of riders being unavailable due to travel difficulties ?

 

No other country has the problems caused my multiple race-nights like the UK which requires many riders to fly in and out often on consecutive days.

 

IMO if any club employs several riders who are involved in tight travelling schedules, then they must be aware of such potential risks.

 

They are but, yet again, it is the fans who suffer and whose interests must be paramount.

 

Rather than cancel the fixtures in these circumstances, when it becomes apparent that scheduled riders will require to be replaced by junior riders, clubs should be obliged to publicise the situation immediately, including making patrons aware of the situation before they pay at the turnstiles.

[Irk Deflector 130]

There is no facility for calling off meetings in these circumstances. My question was: should there be?

 

From the outset of this discussion I did point out this was not solely about BV on Monday.

The answer is "Yes"! and it ins't solely about BV on Monday or simply calling off meetings it's about the structure and governance of Speedway! Edited May 2, 2013 by Irk Deflector

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

NO, it was entertaining. Monday night's fare from Brandon was boring. I have plenty of mates, non regular speedway goers, who like watching on Sky. All of them turned-over Monday but loved Tuesday's offering from Scunthorpe. Make of that what you will.

 

It was a speedway meeting where one side dished out a beating to another. That's not 'ripping the fans off'. What are you suggesting, it should be staged so it's more exciting? Its a sport, big wins happen. I fail to see how it can have any relevance to the stunt Belle Vue pulled.

 

The answer is "Yes"! and it ins't about solely about BV on Monday or simply calling off meetings it's about the structure and governance of Speedway!

 

It would open up a whole heap of trouble and be open to abuse.

[cityrebel 2,960]

in this modern era of the internet there are plenty of ways of informing the fans of team line ups etc. for the locals you could put a sign outside the turnstiles informing the public what riders are missing, they can then decide whether to enter the stadium or not. reading did this a few years ago when the then world champion erik gundersen failed to appear for cradley. it did not stop me attending the meeting. if i had travelled all the way to manchester on monday, i would rather have watched a match with weakened line ups than no speedway at all.

[oldace 1,678]

Maybe for occasions were no legitimate facility can be granted then an alternative could be for a guest facility (or R/R) with an agreed percentage deduction prior to the start.

 

In the case of a rider unable to get to the track perhaps allow a guest in the usual way with 60% (or whatever %)of his score removed. Vary the percentages for other absences.

 

At least the fans get to see a meaningful match with reasonably matched riders but no incentive for teams to manipulate a situation. Just an idea on the hoof. maybe totally unworkable