British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

It will mean that the second things will have some average-inflating easy rides.

And just to balance things up the format will mean that the Heat Leaders will be meeting each other proportionately more often; thereby deflating their averages.

It already happens. The reserves technically have easier programmed rides, whilst the nos 2 and 4 meet different standards of opposition. Similiarly, the heat leaders meet more often, especially if you take the nominated into account.

 

I'd agree the 'NL' reserve averages will probably need to be tallied separately or a correction factor applied. The heat leaders and second strings are very much likely to ride against each other though, so any advantage from riding against the reserves will probably be marginal.

[Grand Central 2,654]

so any advantage from riding against the reserves will probably be marginal.

 

You may be totally correct.

But as the redeclarations of teams during the season do indeed come down to margins as low as a few hundredths of points.

To an astute Team Boss that will be all that is needed.

 

Any middle order guys who do not start the 2014 season may fit ever so nicely into certain teams when they choose to re declare mid season.

Those rider's 2013 figures may just look ever so slightly - or marginally, as you put it - appropriate when the 2014 figures of the incumbants are just a little bit inflated.

 

As I said, it is with that sort of nuance that certain promoters keep gaining an edge.

Perhaps this will be something we will return to when the cut-off date for Play Off places is approaching next year!

Edited November 20, 2013 by Grand Central

[Skidder1 7,637]

Not quite sure I understand that last post?! The 'young british reserves' (as selected by Messrs Morris and Vatcher) will remain in the reserve positions all season - even if they perform well enough early season for their average to move above a second string.

 

Also we don't have any rules published for 2014 yet - unless the BSPA/SCB have been exceptionally efficient post-AGM - so we don't know yet what race format or rules about riding orders, re-declarations etc etc will indicate.

[brewer 159]

i wonder if the reserves will still be able to be used as a "reserve" ie underperforming rider in main body or for tapes exc etc as before, or restricted to their heats.

[waiheke1 4,295]

Not quite sure I understand that last post?! The 'young british reserves' (as selected by Messrs Morris and Vatcher) will remain in the reserve positions all season - even if they perform well enough early season for their average to move above a second string.

 

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The point is thst if the second strings get extra heats against reserves, then hest leaders will have less heats sgsinst reserves/second strings, which will kead to a compression of aversges (I.e. second string sverages will increase slightly, hest lesders will decreasr slightly). This msy not be massive, but what it may allow a team to do is redclare mid season, removing a second string with an artificially high average for a better rider on a similar 2013 average .

Tbf, we already have a situation where riders who race regularly in nominsted hests have artificially low averages compared to other riders ( and vice versa for reserves). Compare the 87 and 88 bl averages (when they intorduced nominsted heat snd second reserve heat) to see how such a compression is very noticeable.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

Given that the points limit effectively fell by 10% just add 10% to any 2013 average for a redeclared rider.

[ch958 2,395]

Thats because most of them are over here.

 

you're right but they don't seem to go to the bloody speedway!!

[A ORLOV 8,628]

There was a group of Poles that used to come to Swindon when we had a Polish rider but when he went so did they.

[waiheke1 4,295]

Why do so many people assume they know more than the BSPA about Speedway? You may not like the way they do things but it's fact that they are running tracks while the vast majority of us are looking in as outsiders with varying degrees of knowledge. There are very, very few on here who know even the basics of running a Speedway track and maybe one or two who have the in depth knowledge of the promoters.

 

You/we may not like their decisions but given the fact that they have all the required information to arrive at a decision and non of us do it seems a bit daft to just assume they are stupid. In general they have somehow made enough money to run a Speedway track whether as a business or an expensive hobby, the vast majority of us have been unable to make enough money to consider it even if we wanted to.

 

It's all a bit like the postman telling the bricklayer how to lay bricks because he saw somebody else do it once, or the brickie telling the postie the best way to deliver letters because it's obvious - even though he's never actually done it. Assuming somebody is stupid because they don't do things the way an amateur thinks best seems a bit, well, stupid!

 

That’s not really a valid analogy though is it.

 

Firstly, the people posting on here are customers, current, past and potential future – therefore comments on the quality of the product provided by promoters is highly relevant.

 

Secondly, I’m not a builder, but if I pay money to a builder who builds a shed that leaks and I hear that he is almost bankrupt, I may be able to deduce that he is not a very good builder and is not running a successful business. The fact that he may still be a better builder than me doesn’t invalidate that deduction.

 

Thirdly, you are right, most people on here have never been promoters. But there are people who have followed speedway for long periods of time, so may well have a better understanding of the sport than many promoters. Similarly, there are people on here who are in senior roles in sales, marketing, accounting, IT, management, run their own businesses etc. These are all highly transferable skills, and while there will be certain nuances to being a speedway promoter, as there are with any industry, to suggest that none on here could do better than the current lot is simply a fallacy.

 

That’s not to say that every person on here could do a better job than current promoters granted, but plenty could, and even those that couldn’t can contribute suggestions which could improve the promoter’s product and/or running of business. I’d suggest the main issue would be as an individual promoter ones power is largely limited to ones own operations, whereas a fundamental change is required to the mentality of the BSPA as a collective is speedway is really to progress. But I’m sure every single track could do better in some aspects of financial management, marketing, product quality etc.

 

I certainly don't think the current promoters are stupid, and yes most have been able to make money in other ventures Hoever, there does seem to be something about sports (not just speedway), which seems to make otherwise astute businessmen make some quite poor business decisions.

 

Let's be realistic. Why should leading riders in a team help develop juniors/newcomers? The juniors/newcomers progress and improvement means they will climb up the team ladder and force out the current leading rider who is training them.

Would you at work help to improve a newcomer in the knowledge that they as they become more experienced they will eventually replace you and as an outcome you will then be without a job?

Surely this is the same in most professions, you could say why should a builder/plumber train an apprentice. It's called succession planning, and if you care about your employer and your industry its what you will do. It's also in your on self interest to ensure your company does well - in speedway surely you want your reservces to do well to maximise your chances of making the play offs and hence earn additional money.

[New Science 1,059]

I agree. I know Neil Machin is not everyone's cup of tea, but he has operated a well run business for 20 odd years. It begs the question has he decided to sell up because he just can't be bothered to deal with some of the promoters who come up with these half arsed ideas at the drop of a hat?

Or maybe its because he has lost money the last 3 seasons and has an air fence to pay for

[ColinMills 1,728]

simple 2 questions

1........a reserve get injured in 1st outing?....you instantly a rider down in next reserve race.........

 

2........with weak league, what happens with all fake aves in 2015? who wud touch bridger on a 8.5 etc??

[jimmy jimmy 298]

I must say that IF I do attend Speedway next Season - I am really pleased I will be going to watch a Premier League Team.

Well good for you, I will be watching and enjoying my speedway at Belle Vue, a British League team.

[arthur cross 492]

I certainly don't think the current promoters are stupid, and yes most have been able to make money in other ventures Hoever, there does seem to be something about sports (not just speedway), which seems to make otherwise astute businessmen make some quite poor business decisions.

The business of running a sports team tends to have a wider variety of "worst case scenarios" (eg, a run of injuries or rain-offs for a speedway team) than most other businesses ... hence folk who've been successful in other types of businesses that are less volatile are repeatedly caught out when they apply similar decision-making to a sports team only to find out they should have factored in that wider variety of problems when judging how profitable the team will be.

[jimmy jimmy 298]

apologies in advance but I cant be arsed to read 58 pages of waffle,rumour and conjecture.ive just read the bspa statement about next season.

so are teams now going to consist of 3 permanent riders,2 double up from premier league and 2 national league juniors or has this not been decided yet.?

Pretty close, the 2 reserves are from a pool of young GB riders, not necessarily NL riders.

[skthecat 90]

Thats because most of them are over here.

And yet tou see so few of them watching speedway at UK tracks, even in densely Polish populated Cities?? Begs the question as to what type of Pole migrates to the UK?

And why don't they flock in droves to our tracks, even with Polish riders in the teams.......