Peter Collins In The Star

[george.m 3,063]

We're not worthy!

[stratton 1,491]

I didn't say my opinion is more worthy but I can understand why you THINK (rather than know) I think my opinion is more worthy but that's your problem isn't it?

A bit like the pillocks who THINK (rather than know) that because PC has criticised the pokc and tr he wants to 'go back to the good old days', that is their problem as well.

I don't pretend to know,all i know is they're are others who have commented on this thread who have years of experience who join in the debate and listen to others opinions whether they are right or wrong do you.?

[Dave the Mic 258]

.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Dave the Mic

[orion 7,621]

.

One of your better posts on the subject

[stratton 1,491]

Obviously!

Most of the time I even quote the other right or wrong opinions when I join in the debate.

Right was that when you used the word Pillocks and being worthy!!

[bellevueace 914]

Ah the good old days, remind me that was when we had packed terracing, all the worlds top riders in the British league, many more meetings, an abundance of world class English riders, dirt on tracks, great racing, team riding, and characters, not to mention far more press coverage in a sport not seen as a minority interest, yes why would we want to go back to that?

[george.m 3,063]

One of your better posts on the subject

PMSL!!

Edited December 26, 2013 by george.m

[Jonny the spud 2,281]

Ah the good old days, remind me that was when we had packed terracing, all the worlds top riders in the British league, many more meetings, an abundance of world class English riders, dirt on tracks, great racing, team riding, and characters, not to mention far more press coverage in a sport not seen as a minority interest, yes why would we want to go back to that?

We can't go back to that because the world has moved on.

 

People have more choices on how and what to do with their leisure time. Going back to the old days is not an option.

 

Just opening the doors and expecting punters to flood in is about as likely as George Formby releasing a no 1 album.

 

Yes learn from the past but for gods sake stop trying to re-create it, it ain't gonna happen. Don't forget that for every old boy who has years of experience and seen it and done it , there's also a handful of promoters who think the same. Just look at every other sport that has left speedway trailing in its wake, has it stayed the same as 30. 40,50 years ago ??

[E I Addio 15,849]

We can't go back to that because the world has moved on.

 

People have more choices on how and what to do with their leisure time. Going back to the old days is not an option.

 

Just opening the doors and expecting punters to flood in is about as likely as George Formby releasing a no 1 album.

 

Yes learn from the past but for gods sake stop trying to re-create it, it ain't gonna happen. Don't forget that for every old boy who has years of experience and seen it and done it , there's also a handful of promoters who think the same. Just look at every other sport that has left speedway trailing in its wake, has it stayed the same as 30. 40,50 years ago ??

 

 

Absolutely spot on.

[Agrotron 955]

PC is a legend

[E I Addio 15,849]

. Even Szczakiel, (sorry Sidney) deserved his title. It wasn't a one off performance as many, including you, would like to believe and on the day,

 

 

 

I don't want to wander too far off topic but that comment shows how the discussion is entering the realms of fantasy.

 

So Szczakiel's performance wasn't a one -off? Can you just remind us of his consistently world class performances outside of Poland ? Apart from his 0 points in the '71 Final that is. I can't find any reference to him in any other World Finals, unless he paid to get in.. And what did he score in the Daily Mirror World Series two moths before the winning the World Final ? Zero I believe. He then rode at Wembley in the WTC a couple of weeks after becoming world champion and managed another world class 0.. Hardly puts him among the all time greats but more importantly suggests his WC win was a bit of a one off performance.

 

His infamous run off with Mauger for the title is on youtube. Look at it carefully

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQplGWLW7Zw

 

Was the Pole allowed to get a roller or whatt ? The rules require the riders to have an equal start. Is right that in a run-off to decide the Speedway Championship of the World this sort of roller should be allowed ?

 

Look at the start marshal. He stands still and doesn't even raise his arms to signify the riders are under starters orders, Szczakiel rolls and the ref lets the tapes go. Look at Maugers throttle hand. The riders are supposed to be allowed 1.5 seconds between coming under starters orders and the tapes going up, to allow them to get their engines spinning. Mauger is only just opening his throttle as he sees Szczakiel starting to roll. Clearly there was no proper signal to put the riders under starters orders.

 

The whole attitude of the referee is shown after Mauger crashes. He is lying unconscious on the track being attended by a doctor, For all anyone knew at that stage Maugers life could have hung in the balance yet the referee allows the "race" to continue. Szczakiel then demonstrates his arrogance by coming round on the next lap, on seeing the unconscious Mauger and the medics on the track , instead of shutting off he deliberately rides wide to within a couple of feet of Mauger and showers both him and the medics with shale. Disgraceful behaviour

 

Earlier in the meeting even Dave Lanning had commented that the Polish authorities were making up the rules as they went along. Putting all these facts together there is no doubt in my mind that the whole thing was a stitch up. The Poles were desperate to have a world champion and Szczakiel knew the ref was going to let the tapes go when he rolled..

 

To my mind this was the event that makes the case for the GP system. We had some good one-off finals after that but it was increasingly a game of chance.

[stratton 1,491]

I don't want to wander too far off topic but that comment shows how the discussion is entering the realms of fantasy.

 

So Szczakiel's performance wasn't a one -off? Can you just remind us of his consistently world class performances outside of Poland ? Apart from his 0 points in the '71 Final that is. I can't find any reference to him in any other World Finals, unless he paid to get in.. And what did he score in the Daily Mirror World Series two moths before the winning the World Final ? Zero I believe. He then rode at Wembley in the WTC a couple of weeks after becoming world champion and managed another world class 0.. Hardly puts him among the all time greats but more importantly suggests his WC win was a bit of a one off performance.

 

His infamous run off with Mauger for the title is on youtube. Look at it carefully

 

Was the Pole allowed to get a roller or whatt ? The rules require the riders to have an equal start. Is right that in a run-off to decide the Speedway Championship of the World this sort of roller should be allowed ?

 

Look at the start marshal. He stands still and doesn't even raise his arms to signify the riders are under starters orders, Szczakiel rolls and the ref lets the tapes go. Look at Maugers throttle hand. The riders are supposed to be allowed 1.5 seconds between coming under starters orders and the tapes going up, to allow them to get their engines spinning. Mauger is only just opening his throttle as he sees Szczakiel starting to roll. Clearly there was no proper signal to put the riders under starters orders.

 

The whole attitude of the referee is shown after Mauger crashes. He is lying unconscious on the track being attended by a doctor, For all anyone knew at that stage Maugers life could have hung in the balance yet the referee allows the "race" to continue. Szczakiel then demonstrates his arrogance by coming round on the next lap, on seeing the unconscious Mauger and the medics on the track , instead of shutting off he deliberately rides wide to within a couple of feet of Mauger and showers both him and the medics with shale. Disgraceful behaviour

 

Earlier in the meeting even Dave Lanning had commented that the Polish authorities were making up the rules as they went along. Putting all these facts together there is no doubt in my mind that the whole thing was a stitch up. The Poles were desperate to have a world champion and Szczakiel knew the ref was going to let the tapes go when he rolled..

 

To my mind this was the event that makes the case for the GP system. We had some good one-off finals after that but it was increasingly a game of chance.

You are right about the rollers,but lets be honest Ivan had his fair share over the years.Also in that run off it was his riding that cost him the title.

[SCB 0]

Ivan won a lot down to psychology. People knew you couldn't beat Ivan, Ivan was a pro. But in that race the Poles beat Ivan, wound him up and he made a silly mistake. Ivan threw that away.

[Gemini 4,894]

First time I've watched that clip and I can't believe how the referee allowed that start - well it wasn't really a start as the riders didn't come to a stop beforehand at the gate anyway. Terrible also how the 'race' was allowed to continue for another two laps while Ivan lay on the track.

[E I Addio 15,849]

You are right about the rollers,but lets be honest Ivan had his fair share over the years.Also in that run off it was his riding that cost him the title.

 

I agree Ivan had more than his share of rollers and I didn't like him for that reason.

 

The point is though, should the World Championship be decided on that sort of unsatisfactory start ? In the context of the discussion we are having my point is that the GP system does away with a rider becoming World Champion by a bit of luck or cheating on the day. I understand the arguments about selection and qualification but nobody can say that Tai won his title on the basis of luck or gate positions. These things even themselves out over a GP series.