Belle Vue National Stadium

[ch958 2,395]

having just criticised Mr Cross for being negative i feel i must say that Speedway would be unlikely to afford the rent for the Ricoh and i doubt the cash exists within the sport to purchase it

 

lovely idea though -

[Midland Red 2,383]

No. But those who moved in since 2012 will have been well aware of the railway track and the empty football stadium (with the possibility of the return of football). The additional 15 heats of speedway and the announcements over the P.A. system would be in addition to what they would have expected when they moved in.

 

Very similar to those who have moved into the houses at Armadale. They would have been aware of the speedway track outside their front door, when they moved in, so they have no complaints, whereas those near to the Ricoh could have complaints, as it wasn't used as a speedway venue when they moved in.

 

Armadale isn't a fully enclosed stadium like Ricoh

There is no main road comparable with the A444, a main link between Coventry north and the M6, closer to the homes than the stadium

There is no railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium

Chalk and cheese, a very poor argument

I don't suppose for one moment that speedway will ever be staged at the Ricoh, even a one-off event, but I do wish your comments contained some element of realism with regards to a location you've only ever visited via Google

[AndyJ 95]

Very similar to those who have moved into the houses at Armadale. They would have been aware of the speedway track outside their front door, when they moved in, so they have no complaints, whereas those near to the Ricoh could have complaints, as it wasn't used as a speedway venue when they moved in.

Sadly the fact that residents moved in whilst the speedway track is a going concern is seemingly of little relevance (the government response to the e-petition for 'Save Mildenhall Stadium' is an example of this)..

 

Edit:

Reference: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/62894

"Since the late 1800s, it has become well established in case law that once it is established that a particular act amounts to a nuisance it cannot be justified on the basis that the complainant ‘came to the nuisance’. In other words, legal proceedings can be taken in relation to issues that can constitute a nuisance, regardless of whether those circumstances arose before the complainant became the occupier of the affected premises"

Edited June 6, 2014 by Tkdandy

[StevePark 2,781]

Armadale isn't a fully enclosed stadium like Ricoh

There is no main road comparable with the A444, a main link between Coventry north and the M6, closer to the homes than the stadium

There is no railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium

Chalk and cheese, a very poor argument

I don't suppose for one moment that speedway will ever be staged at the Ricoh, even a one-off event, but I do wish your comments contained some element of realism with regards to a location you've only ever visited via Google

 

And pray tell how the heck do you know where I have visited only via Google?????

 

???? There are no houses on Judds Lane - it leads to a footbridge over the railway line, to what are the nearest houses to the arena

 

So,, to the west there are houses across the main road and the other side of the carpark

To the east there are houses the other side of a railway line

No houses to the north (all industrial)

No houses to the south (retail park)

 

Immediate access to the M6 at a location not far from M6 Toll, M42, M5, M69, M1, A14 - which is precisely why, originally, it was suggested that the new National Football Stadium, to replace the old Empire Stadium at Wembley, might be constructed on this very site

 

Oh, and not too far from one of the locations claimed to be "the centre of England"

 

It has a lot going for it (including being out of regular use at the moment!) and noise nimby problems are likely to be minimal at the very most

 

Edit: There is also the likelihood of a railway station being built at the arena

 

 

Armadale isn't a fully enclosed stadium like Ricoh

There is no main road comparable with the A444, a main link between Coventry north and the M6, closer to the homes than the stadium

There is no railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium

Chalk and cheese, a very poor argument

I don't suppose for one moment that speedway will ever be staged at the Ricoh, even a one-off event, but I do wish your comments contained some element of realism with regards to a location you've only ever visited via Google

 

Contradiction there, I believe!

[Midland Red 2,383]

Contradiction there, I believe!

I don't know Armadale, only what I see on Google, but I don't see a railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium, like there is at Ricoh

 

Contradiction? Don't understand where!

 

And pray tell how the heck do you know where I have visited only via Google?????

 

 

An assumption, I admit, but you only mentioned viewing the Ricoh and environs on Google and not from having visited the area Edited June 6, 2014 by Midland Red

[arthur cross 492]

A completed and vacant sports stadium which already has (apparently) held noisy events like rock concerts and in an ideal location to become the home for a local team without the need for any of the faff Belle Vue have been dealing with for the last few years, is as near to 'on a plate' as you will ever get.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear ... for the 3rd time in less than 24 hours !!

 

As I explained earlier this morning on this thread, although no local team currently calls it their home, the Ricoh Arena isn't "vacant".

 

Instead, its current financial status and its future use are right at the heart of a High Court judicial review in just 4 days' time that's a 3-way tussle between its owner, its city council and the football club that used to rent it !!

 

Good luck knocking on Birmingham High Court's door to ask if a speedway team can move into a venue that's wrapped up in such heavy legal circumstances !!

 

While this judicial review is hanging over the Ricoh Arena, it's immaterial how many noisy events it's already held well before becoming bogged down in this current legal struggle.

 

Any future regular use of it, for speedway, football, rock concerts, tiddlywinks or anything else is totally dependent on what happens in Birmingham High Court from next Tuesday onwards.

 

Far from the Ricoh Arena not having "any of the faff Belle Vue have been dealing with for the past few years", it's actually one of the very few sporting venues in this country that's still having MORE faff than Belle Vue are trudging through so slowly !! !!

[Aces51 2,778]

And you're perfectly entitled to confirm such a belief.Mind you, the opening 4 paragraphs of the forum-thread you've quoted from mid-August 2013 are as follows ...BELLE Vue chief David Gordon has unveiled the stunning team of international business big-hitters who will play a major part in the club’s new era.He named an awesome consortium of top British businessmen who have invested in the club’s future and the new stadium at the new Belle Vue Sports Village.It was recently given the green light by Manchester City Council who have appointed international construction company ISG, who have a base on Salford Quays, to develop the site in Kirkmanshulme Lane, Gorton.ISG, who built the futuristic Velodrome for last year’s London Olympics, are now pursuing planning permission and hopes are high the Aces will race into their new home in 2014.Given we're already nearly halfway through 2014, are those hopes still high that the Aces will race into their new home this year ? !!There's a repeated theme here ... the MEN-article from Feb-2012 targeted the 2013 World Cup for the new stadium ... then the forum-thread and press release from Aug-2013 targeted 2014 for Belle Vue racing into their new homw ... now, on the first page of this thread in Jun-2014, we had "Phil The Ace" reporting that "Diggers won't be digging until next year at earliest."There's only so long you can credibly keep raising hopes for "next year" and then switch without any shame to another "next year" when the calendar moves on.

In fact the MEN article from 2013 you copied refers to the construction company, ISG, anticipating the stadium would be ready in 2014. They are obviously experienced in these matters so it is hardly unreasonable that the Belle Vue promotion thought the same.

 

What you seem to fail to grasp is that the development includes much more than the stadium and no matter what Belle Vue do they are also dependent on others, including the council, doing what they have to do. There was also the minor matter of the covenant that was only discovered during due diligence, that required a significant redrawing of the stadium plans.

 

Perhaps, it might help determine the value of your contributions on this topic if you were to enlighten us as to your relevant experience and qualifications in dealing with such matters. You could also explain your justification for your comment that Gordon and Morton are clowns and apparently unfit to run the new stadium when it is built.

[StevePark 2,781]

Oh dear, I bet you are one of those pratts who moans about the Elite League not being elite.

 

A completed and vacant sports stadium which already has (apparently) held noisy events like rock concerts and in an ideal location to become the home for a local team without the need for any of the faff Belle Vue have been dealing with for the last few years, is as near to 'on a plate' as you will ever get. I suspect it would only qualify as on a plate to you if someone was to build the track, pits and referees box and then go and pick you up in a limo, drive you to your new home and hand the keys over as you walk down the red carpet!

 

Although you would have not had the help of google maps (lol!) I can just imagine you telling (in a rather irritating pompous voice) the heroes who saved Belle Vue in the late 80s how KL would be completely unsuitable due to noise (the track is virtually in the back gardens of several houses!) disruption and noise from the PA (try telling Iron Maiden to turn the noise down ha ha) every week. Im sure at least one of the original Belle Vue consortium from 1987 would have been rather less polite and rather more forthright to you than I have been, lol!

 

If you are going to name call, at least spell it correctly.

 

It may have held "noisy events like rock concerts" in the past, but 7 months of a noisy event every week, is a bit different to the occasional rock concert.

 

Still..... as Arthur Cross has already said (more than once), it's hardly "on a plate," no matter how you try to "butter it up."

 

Oh, and while we are on, yes, indeed, I am one of those who say the Elite League isn't "Elite." Even more so now that they have National League riders in it.

I don't know Armadale, only what I see on Google, but I don't see a railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium, like there is at Ricoh

 

Contradiction? Don't understand where!

 

An assumption, I admit, but you only mentioned viewing the Ricoh and environs on Google and not from having visited the area

 

Apologies. In your post, you mention Armadale. Then on line 2 you mention Coventry. Then in line 3 you say there is no railway line. I (wrongly) assumed you were still talking about the Ricoh, not Armadale.

 

I mention Google Maps as, everyone can go onto it and see the location of the Arena.

 

By the way, for your information, I have visited Armadale on numerous occasions!

Edited June 6, 2014 by Steve Park

[arthur cross 492]

Perhaps, it might help determine the value of your contributions on this topic if you were to enlighten us as to your relevant experience and qualifications in dealing with such matters. You could also explain your justification for your comment that Gordon and Morton are clowns and apparently unfit to run the new stadium when it is built.

More than 20 years' experience of various sorts of media work (print and broadcast) including coverage of a couple of very successful stadium developments.

 

Last spring's farcical postponement of the Belle Vue v Poole meeting probably qualifies Dave Gordon and Chris Morton for "clown" status on its own but on top of that, there were also two separate occasions a few years apart (and involving different riders) that I was involved in that highlighted their incompetence.

 

By the way, I grasped a long time ago (though not from any information from Belle Vue's end), how much the National Speedway Stadium's wrapped up in a wider development of its proposed site ... that wider angle still isn't anywhere near a good enough reason for me to explain Belle Vue's sluggish and poorly-presented progress.

[The White Knight 9,039]

More than 20 years' experience of various sorts of media work (print and broadcast) including coverage of a couple of very successful stadium developments.

 

Last spring's farcical postponement of the Belle Vue v Poole meeting probably qualifies Dave Gordon and Chris Morton for "clown" status on its own but on top of that, there were also two separate occasions a few years apart (and involving different riders) that I was involved in that highlighted their incompetence.

 

By the way, I grasped a long time ago (though not from any information from Belle Vue's end), how much the National Speedway Stadium's wrapped up in a wider development of its proposed site ... that wider angle still isn't anywhere near a good enough reason for me to explain Belle Vue's sluggish and poorly-presented progress.

To be honest - I cannot really understand why you seem so determined to have a go at the people who are Promoting Belle Vue, and attempting to push forward the new Stadium develpement. I think that what they are attempting is wonderful for Speedway, and incidentally, my Team Belle Vue.

 

I think what could apply here is that if you can't find something nice or positive to say - say nothing.

[StevePark 2,781]

If someone like Gordon and Morton or the Belle Vue saviours from the late 80s, and a stadium like the Ricoh was an option, no matter how difficult it might seem to the 'can't do' types like you, it would happen.

 

A ready built stadium, particularly one of that quality would be manna from heaven and definitely seen as 'on a plate' but not every one has the gumption to make something happen falling by the wayside on naff naff and trivia or frightened off by a bit of hard graft.

 

Thanks for confirming my suspicions by the way, nuff said, lol!

 

on a plate

phrase of plate

1. 1.

   informal

   used to indicate that something has been achieved with little or no effort.

[Midland Red 2,383]

Apologies. In your post, you mention Armadale. Then on line 2 you mention Coventry. Then in line 3 you say there is no railway line. I (wrongly) assumed you were still talking about the Ricoh, not Armadale.

 

I mention Google Maps as, everyone can go onto it and see the location of the Arena.

 

By the way, for your information, I have visited Armadale on numerous occasions!

I wrote:

 

"Armadale isn't a fully enclosed stadium like Ricoh

There is no main road comparable with the A444, a main link between Coventry north and the M6, closer to the homes than the stadium

There is no railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium"

 

It's all about Armadale - not fully enclosed, no main road, no railway line

Seems straight forward enough, but clearly, reading your continued failure to grasp any point made to you, it wasn't straight forward enough for you

I won't call you names, although one or two spring to mind!

[StevePark 2,781]

As I have already pointed out, what is considered little or no effort to the likes of Gordon and Morton would seem like a task of biblical proportions to someone like you.

 

Awaits a pedantic comment about the use of the word biblical.......

 

All I've said is that it would have many obstacles to overcome, I have never said anything like that it is a task of biblical proportions.

 

If you think putting speedway anywhere, where it isn't currently, is a task of little or no effort (no matter who is behind the scheme), then I suggest you look at all those which have tried in the last few years and failed (Bristol, Exeter etc., etc.).

I wrote:

 

"Armadale isn't a fully enclosed stadium like Ricoh

There is no main road comparable with the A444, a main link between Coventry north and the M6, closer to the homes than the stadium

There is no railway line directly alongside the homes and between the homes and stadium"

 

It's all about Armadale - not fully enclosed, no main road, no railway line

Seems straight forward enough, but clearly, reading your continued failure to grasp any point made to you, it wasn't straight forward enough for you

I won't call you names, although one or two spring to mind!

 

Which is why I apologised!

[StevePark 2,781]

Well Belle Vue managed it in 1987, despite the 'many obstacles' you have already pointed out. It was that difficult it took nearly 6 months to achieve. Guess what we are going to move again, not as far this time though.

 

Those failures you refer to would have failed at Belle Vue in 1987 and they would have failed with the National Speedway stadium.

 

Until you replace the can't do with the can do everything seems difficult or even impossible.

 

This thread was just an alert of another small step in the process. I welcome any concrete news of progress, particularly one as significant as this as we were hamstrung until the council gave us the dates.

 

There will be people like you who will toddle off to the meeting and make stupid claims in a feeble attempt to undermine the project, little do they know that this is just ticking a box, nothing a sado says at these events will make any difference whatsoever. It's just like you and one or two others posting drivel on this and other threads, at the end of the day you will just look stupid.

 

What does baffle me though is what is your agenda? What do you hope to achieve by constant negative bilge? Is it jealousy, are you so unhappy that you want to try and stifle any good news and bring everyone down to your gloomy world?

 

There must be a reason?

 

No agenda, as you put it. I will be absolutely delighted if the National Stadium happens. I will be applauding loudly if there is an English/British GP held there as it saves travelling all the way down to Cardiff (I haven't been to Cardiff for a number of years, although attended half a dozen, but would love a 'change of scenery' for the said GP and could actually help me male a decision to go to the GP again). I'm just putting 'the other side of the coin,' which, is, after all, what discussions are all about.

[Tsunami 10,219]

I think it would be brilliant for both BV, and the sport in general, to see the National Stadium up and running. I praise the efforts of those involved, and I am well aware that progress of a project of this size needs extreme patience, especially when you consider this development is part of a package being run by others, so the progress is often determined by the other partners.

 

Let's hope we continue to get positive news about it's progress. It was deemed initially to be a bad time to invest in a project of this size, due to the countries financial downturn, but with the economy back of track and going in the right direction, the time would now seem to be an OK time to finish the project.

 

Best of luck.