orion 7,615 Posted August 10, 2014 In my previous post I raised two questions, one has been touched on but nobody has commented on my second question, and I would be interested to know the answer. My second question was............ "Secondly the subject brought to the fore with Ty's comments about a single night for all teams to race. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but with the sport being so subject to weather I am wondering how this would work as the season moved on. In football we talk about teams having a game in hand, and sometime even two games in hand, but in Speedway this can be a great deal more. At the moment there is a gap of five games between some teams, and in the Premier league there is a gap of eleven races in one case, and we are talking about a year where the weather has been reasonably kind. Surely as the season moves towards the second half the calendar is going to become packed and other nights will have to be raced to catch up. I notice Belle Vue a week on Monday are having a double meeting, with two races one after the other. I am a Belle Vue fan, and love Speedway, but 30 races in one night is a lot to take especially if we are not on form that particular night, and the fact that I have to travel an hour back home afterwards. So my second question is how would it work especially if we had a particularly wet season." I guess the same as Sweden and Poland find a date no matter what the race night is that both of you can agree on and race then . You can have a wet season now and it would still be a case of fitting in the matches Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
New Science 1,059 Posted August 10, 2014 In my previous post I raised two questions, one has been touched on but nobody has commented on my second question, and I would be interested to know the answer. My second question was............ "Secondly the subject brought to the fore with Ty's comments about a single night for all teams to race. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but with the sport being so subject to weather I am wondering how this would work as the season moved on. In football we talk about teams having a game in hand, and sometime even two games in hand, but in Speedway this can be a great deal more. At the moment there is a gap of five games between some teams, and in the Premier league there is a gap of eleven races in one case, and we are talking about a year where the weather has been reasonably kind. Surely as the season moves towards the second half the calendar is going to become packed and other nights will have to be raced to catch up. I notice Belle Vue a week on Monday are having a double meeting, with two races one after the other. I am a Belle Vue fan, and love Speedway, but 30 races in one night is a lot to take especially if we are not on form that particular night, and the fact that I have to travel an hour back home afterwards. So my second question is how would it work especially if we had a particularly wet season." Another downside of the single night Elite League speedway is that on that night its probable it will clash with a live TV match on the box.History tells us that significantly less people tend to attend when their club is at home on TV. How many more will take the option of watching a top of the table match instead of attending their own track on that same night ? If they do then its stuffed ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 10, 2014 Another downside of the single night Elite League speedway is that on that night its probable it will clash with a live TV match on the box.History tells us that significantly less people tend to attend when their club is at home on TV. How many more will take the option of watching a top of the table match instead of attending their own track on that same night ? If they do then its stuffed ! Sweden and Poland have live tv matches on at the same time so I guess they would have ask themselves the same question .Thus far they have not changed that format so it can't have caused them that many problems . Would there be a reason why uk fans would be more likely to watch tv rather than go are watched there teams than people in Sweden and Poland ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted August 11, 2014 One night for UK racing is a pipe dream. What works for Poole wouldn't work for Eastbourne and wouldn't work for Lakeside. Every track shares its facilities with another tennant and have to work around them and what works for their immediate locality. So that's a no go. No promoter in their right mind would switch to a night that doesn't suit them for the percieved greater good.Most will agree that the costs of running an Elite League club just don't tally with the money coming through the door. So, the options are to saturate it with more top riders and pray to god more people come through the gates to pay for inflated costs. Or, cut our cloth accordingly, go without GP riders and make the league more of a Premier League standard. For me, it's pretty obvious. Clubs that have stepped up from Premier to Elite have seen costs soar and income plummet. The team might cost at least double, but do the crowds double?I think its time for a bit of reality. Britain is a low fourth on top riders lists now behind the GP, Poland and Sweden. So, let's go without GP riders and create the best product we have with the affordable materials at our disposal. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted August 11, 2014 For a business that's losing so much money every season and that in itself is putting the future of speedway at risk, surely any savvy boss would want to cut his highest paid workers without shutting down the factory. It makes sense, cutting back the top paid men (they will probably decide it themselves, eventually) to make Britain get back on a sound footing. We cannot survive as we are right now. Another season will arrive next year, and we'll be no better off. Time to start drawing up plans... for the future.. that'll be a lot brighter... without the men who think they are doing us a favour by riding here! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted August 11, 2014 ? just as many clubs in the PL cry about losing money . That is the bit don't understand let's all go Pl it's hardly a winning product . A rosier future is to try bring more fans into the sport not drive them away The PL run without Sky money. The EL have Sky money and yet still cry about losing money. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted August 11, 2014 Im guessing the top guys issues are not the many race nights but the fact they could be at Wolves on Monday, Sweden Tuesday, Poole Wed, Lynn Thurs, Cov Friday..... Spread the fixture out properly so NO team rides more than 1 away meeting a week. Riders then would get no more than 2 meetings a week. Would suit lesser riders and clubs too as it would aid cash flow too. Cant be good for a reserve to go 6 weeks and ride 2 meetings if they have family to feed. While it can help a promoter to have 10 away meeting in a month with 4 home meetings. The league table will be more accurate then too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Stadia 1,071 Posted August 11, 2014 There is a thread just started in the Elite League section, mentioning how poor the Elite League is this year and suggesting speedway should be run by ex riders rather than 'money men'. But surely, no promoter of any league, especially these days, expects to make a profit! But I can understand them expecting to at least break even, which is not unreasonable. I think speedway needs to lay it's cards on the table, for all remaining tracks and look at all the real costs and see where changes need to be made for the good of everybody. Surely a sensible business plan for all can be achieved. Perhaps speedway promoters need to work as a co-operative? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 11, 2014 For a business that's losing so much money every season and that in itself is putting the future of speedway at risk, surely any savvy boss would want to cut his highest paid workers without shutting down the factory. It makes sense, cutting back the top paid men (they will probably decide it themselves, eventually) to make Britain get back on a sound footing. We cannot survive as we are right now. Another season will arrive next year, and we'll be no better off. Time to start drawing up plans... for the future.. that'll be a lot brighter... without the men who think they are doing us a favour by riding here! For a business that's losing so much money every season and that in itself is putting the future of speedway at risk, surely any savvy boss would want to cut his highest paid workers without shutting down the factory. It makes sense, cutting back the top paid men (they will probably decide it themselves, eventually) to make Britain get back on a sound footing. We cannot survive as we are right now. Another season will arrive next year, and we'll be no better off. Time to start drawing up plans... for the future.. that'll be a lot brighter... without the men who think they are doing us a favour by riding here! Getting rid of the best people and crowd pullers makes no sense at all nor do ideas that will mean even less fans ... As I said before the Ward's and Woofies of this world paid for themselves ...a Savy boss would not just at what he pays he would look at what he was getting for his money before he starts to fire people . As I said before there are just as many teams in the Pl who don't have big names who find it hard to survive . The PL run without Sky money. The EL have Sky money and yet still cry about losing money. Boro have been in the El with the sky money and cry about losing money and they have been in the Pl with the lower costs and cry about losing money Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted August 11, 2014 One night for UK racing is a pipe dream. What works for Poole wouldn't work for Eastbourne and wouldn't work for Lakeside. Every track shares its facilities with another tennant and have to work around them and what works for their immediate locality. So that's a no go. No promoter in their right mind would switch to a night that doesn't suit them for the percieved greater good. Most will agree that the costs of running an Elite League club just don't tally with the money coming through the door. So, the options are to saturate it with more top riders and pray to god more people come through the gates to pay for inflated costs. Or, cut our cloth accordingly, go without GP riders and make the league more of a Premier League standard. For me, it's pretty obvious. Clubs that have stepped up from Premier to Elite have seen costs soar and income plummet. The team might cost at least double, but do the crowds double? I think its time for a bit of reality. Britain is a low fourth on top riders lists now behind the GP, Poland and Sweden. So, let's go without GP riders and create the best product we have with the affordable materials at our disposal. Great post this is the way to go, we cannot afford to pay the likes of Ward anymore as much as we delight in watching him ride.Clubs are struggling and that's even with the sky top up money,so i see no other option to be honest.Speedway can be entertaining without the top boys,and lets be brutal we have not that many riding here anyway.Also if the top boys don't ride who knows it might give a chance to create new stars of the future.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Great post this is the way to go, we cannot afford to pay the likes of Ward anymore as much as we delight in watching him ride.Clubs are struggling and that's even with the sky top up money,so i see no other option to be honest.Speedway can be entertaining without the top boys,and lets be brutal we have not that many riding here anyway.Also if the top boys don't ride who knows it might give a chance to create new stars of the future.! Poole are having no problems in paying Ward as Wolves have little problem paying Woffy on the other hand can Boro afford to pay the likes of Lewis Blackbird etc ? . As I keep saying plenty of clubs who don't have any top stars who can't make ends meat .Do Glasgow stuggle because they have top stars ? Edited August 11, 2014 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted August 11, 2014 Poole are having no problems in paying Ward as Wolves have little problem paying Woffy on the other hand can Boro afford to pay the likes of Lewis Blackbird etc ? .As I keep saying plenty of clubs who don't have any top stars who can't make ends meat .Do Glasgow stuggle because they have top stars ?Well Poole might be riding amongst them selves soon? your points about some PL clubs are right there is struggle at all levels.But most people are saying start again re plan for the future and try and put the clubs back on a even keel .Have the plight of Swindon,Eastbourne,Peterborough,Birmingham not told you there has to be change at EL level and soon.? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 11, 2014 Well Poole might be riding amongst them selves soon? your points about some PL clubs are right there is struggle at all levels.But most people are saying start again re plan for the future and try and put the clubs back on a even keel .Have the plight of Swindon,Eastbourne,Peterborough,Birmingham not told you there has to be change at EL level and soon.? Has the plight of Boro Bimingham when they were pl Newport, Glasgow told you anything ? does that mean we have to change the pl ? .. for every club you can find who have had it hard at El level are find you a Pl club who have found it hard ... Ward and Woofy pay for themselves by the extra people they bring to the match . Do you know when Swindon started to find things hard ? The day Leigh Adams left the club, sure Adams got paid well ( when they paid him of course ) but he put 200 -300 on the gate every week so he paid for himself . This train of thought that if we dropped the best riders is somehow going to save the sport by giving us lower crowds is pie in the sky . 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Has the plight of Boro Bimingham when they were pl Newport, Glasgow told you anything ? does that mean we have to change the pl ? .. for every club you can find who have had it hard at El level are find you a Pl club who have found it hard ... Ward and Woofy pay for themselves by the extra people they bring to the match . Do you know when Swindon started to find things hard ? The day Leigh Adams left the club, sure Adams got paid well ( when they paid him of course ) but he put 200 -300 on the gate every week so he paid for himself . This train of thought that if we dropped the best riders is somehow going to save the sport by giving us lower crowds is pie in the sky .I wish you were right but the sums do not add up,also even if we signed Emil the crowds would not go up to the Leigh heyday.You want to know why because alot of people who even go feel short changed the value for money is not there.Forget other clubs the EL has to cut its cloth accordingly and believe me without the sky money clubs would never be able to afford the Wards of this world. Edited August 11, 2014 by sidney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 11, 2014 I wish you were right but the sums do not add up,also even if we signed Emil the crowds would not go up to the Leigh heyday.You want to know why because alot of people who even go feel short changed the value for money is not there.Forget other clubs the EL has to cut its cloth accordingly and beleive me without the sky money clubs would never be able to afford the Wards of this world. Any club has to cut it cloth to amount of money it get's in and pays out it matter's not if they are in the El or Pl . There are clubs in both leagues who make money are there club who lose money as I have already pointed out . I am sure Premier League football clubs would not able to make the kind of signings they do now without the tv /sky money so if that went then just like speedway clubs they would have to budget for that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
