Robinh88 571 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Barker's average has been on the decline since joining Plymouth in 2011 Berwick should see it perk up again.... Edited December 18, 2014 by JDoyleSpeedwayChampion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamster00 149 Posted December 18, 2014 Maybe Barker was signed as one of the riders who can improve his average? Do you actually need an excessive gain in average to win the league now, or have a good season? Berwick ended last season 4th, with a team average of 43.16, over the course of the season they didn’t even add a point to their team total. Barker may improve his average slightly but I can't see much improvement I would say Berwick were the best of a bad bunch last season I reckon if you look at the two teams in the play off final there would have been some big improvements there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkafag 746 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) I think most fans in the country would snap your hand of for 4th and being the best of a bad bunch just now if they removed the club specs for a minute! There were massive gains last season but last season was a bit of an exception when you look into it. The Edinburgh model last year is great, one to be admired, and one that every side would like to follow. It is a side that in terms of structure and improvement hasn’t been matched for close to 20 years though! They only lost about 4 competitive meetings all season! of course everyone wants to build a team like that! I think that a few of the improvers were predicted, Fricke being one, he is an excellent talent. Worral going from a 3 to 7.5. I don’t think anyone saw that coming, possibly 5.5 would have been a fair prediction. His progress was always going to come, but that was unexpectedly rapid. Alex Harkess himself admitted that the side was built with the idea of reaching the Play Offs and seeing where things went (and I think that most fans probably predicted the same from that side), if hadn’t been for that absurdly excessive gain from Worral, Edinburgh, while still an excellent side, would have been a lot closer to the rest of the pack. Somerset signed a rider on 5.00 average who could/should have been on a 7.00 average such was his experience. If you sign a rider on an average that is 2 points below his assessed ability, I would expect a gain in team total come the end of the season! Edited December 18, 2014 by sparkafag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamster00 149 Posted December 18, 2014 I think most fans in the country would snap your hand of for 4th and being the best of a bad bunch just now if they removed the club specs for a minute! There were massive gains last season but last season was a bit of an exception when you look into it. The Edinburgh model last year is great, one to be admired, and one that every side would like to follow. It is a side that in terms of structure and improvement hasn’t been matched for close to 20 years though! It's not just Edinburgh's model last year they seem to produce teams capable of winning leagues year in year out and most of the time with a similar formula We have just produced a winning formula last season and now we have changed the formula no wonder we can't find consistency from season to season and it's one reason why I fancy us to be well down this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkafag 746 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) The Edinburgh side of 2013 was different to last year though, they didn’t have overly strong reserves and they started the season with Helfer and ended it with Mitchell Davey! Cook going from 8.50 to over 10.00 was the difference maker then. They added 3.5 to their team total, 2 of which came from Cook and not the reserves. The strategy changed from one season to the next, it depends on rider availability. If a rider like Barker is available on an average below 9.00 it is crazy to turn him down IMO, his average means that the chance is still there to sign strength in depth/improvers. Edited December 18, 2014 by sparkafag 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
abyassinian bandit 32 Posted December 18, 2014 Isn't that what I am saying, perhaps less direct If they didn't kill each other in the pits, no love between those two Remember!, one rider does not make a team That line up was a bit of a rarity, and well deserved for assembling a team like that. Looks like Glasgow may have achieved something similar, but via a different route, MONEY,MONEY. MONEY Injuries, weather etc. etc. always used as an excuse, it's generally the same for every team. You cannot run a team on IF,IF,IF, it always comes down to management. It's like saying in my shop, what IF I run out of watch batteries, it won't happen as I always make sure I havve enough stock to cover, with back up suppliers, just in case. wasnt saying it was an excuse just something that happens always thought a squad system in speedway should be used Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robinh88 571 Posted December 18, 2014 Can't believe people are questioning Ben Barker signing on a 8.91 average bearing in mind in 2013 he scored an 18 point maximum and Paid 12 from 4 guesting for us Barker generally wins 4 our of his 5 races at Berwick every time. Yet Thomas Jorgenson and Jake Allen come in on 14 points and nine combined Spot the issue here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,464 Posted December 18, 2014 Can't believe people are questioning Ben Barker signing on a 8.91 average bearing in mind in 2013 he scored an 18 point maximum and Paid 12 from 4 guesting for us Barker generally wins 4 our of his 5 races at Berwick every time. Yet Thomas Jorgenson and Jake Allen come in on 14 points and nine combined Spot the issue here 19.5pts for 4 riders? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YAMYAMBANDIT 560 Posted December 18, 2014 Barkers average isn’t even that excessive for a Number 1. It will take a hell of an argument to convince me that signing him is a bad idea, it is an argument that I haven’t read on here yet. I dont think anyone is arguing that Barker is not a good signing, they are talking about how you structure your line up to be competetive. I'm not saying it's a bad idea I just think it's a better idea to build the team differently build it around riders that can improve there average Edinburgh have seemed to build around Wolbert, Sedgmen and the reserves and then fit Cookie in from there rather than sign Cookie and work from there as we have done with Barker Maybe it is just my perception of how they do it. Think you are right wasnt saying it was an excuse just something that happens always thought a squad system in speedway should be used Love the squad idea, but sadly in a declining sport not enough riders to go around. I dislike doubling up in any form. Can't believe people are questioning Ben Barker signing on a 8.91 average bearing in mind in 2013 he scored an 18 point maximum and Paid 12 from 4 guesting for us Barker generally wins 4 our of his 5 races at Berwick every time. Yet Thomas Jorgenson and Jake Allen come in on 14 points and nine combined Spot the issue here As I said dont think they are, they are questioning the way the team is being constructed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkafag 746 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) I dont think anyone is arguing that Barker is not a good signing, they are talking about how you structure your line up to be competetive. And this is entirely possible with a rider like Barker in the side, his signing doesn’t mean a change of tact from last season, it depends on who the other riders signed are. An example being (and I am not saying he will be) Allen is a Darcy Ward and sticks a point on his average, Edberg sticks a point on his average, and Vissing or Doolan return and add .5. All of a sudden (if Barker also improves) you have put 4 points on your team total. You can construct a side however you like, it ultimately is about how they perform on the track. Edited December 18, 2014 by sparkafag 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamster00 149 Posted December 18, 2014 And this is entirely possible with a rider like Barker in the side, his signing doesn’t mean a change of tact from last season, it depends on who the other riders signed are. They have changed there tactic though last season we only started with only one rider on an average over 7 This season we have two over 7 if Jake Allens average is a 7 as guessed and we have one over 8 On the face of things we have had a change of tactic It may work but if it ain't broke don't fix it as they always say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkafag 746 Posted December 18, 2014 You can always improve on it though? A side with strength and a rider who can win big races wouldn’t be a bad thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkafag 746 Posted December 18, 2014 Hence the or between Vissing and Doolan…. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,464 Posted December 18, 2014 Hence the or between Vissing and Doolan….Apologies realised I misread the post Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robinh88 571 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Rusty and Theo would have been better options than TJ and Allen for the number of points Edited December 18, 2014 by JDoyleSpeedwayChampion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
