SCB 0 Posted May 12, 2015 Bit of a bolt out of the blue this, could Sheffield have really misunderstood the rules this badly. It would seem they were told that he only had to average 7 this season. When he actually had to have a 7 point rolling average. I guess I can see to some extent where they're coming from Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Django 159 Posted May 12, 2015 Slightly off topic here but Worky's situation with Campton confuses me still. He had a valid visa up until the end of 2015 by which point he would have to have a 7 point average to have it renewed which he may or may not have achieved. So my question is with a valid visa why was he not allowed in? If every club had to reapply for its sponsor licence then every rider would have to reapply for their visa as their current ones would be invalid I feel sorry for Proctor but as others have said someone should have been aware of the upcoming problem of his visa expiry and his rolling average Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) there is NO defence, i'm merely trying to make the point that NONE of us know what was said to the promotion to to lead them to misunderstand the positioning of the goalposts (which seems to be the case here) . did sheffield not get a commendation for their understanding of the new rules at the beginning of the season ????????????????????????? http://www.sheffieldspeedway.co/news.php?extend.1757 Surely to employ Proctor Sheffield had to know how long his visa was valid for in the first place. Edited May 12, 2015 by RocketBen1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spin king 1,923 Posted May 12, 2015 Surely to employ Proctor Sheffield had to know how long his visa was valid for in the first place. Reading between the lines I get the feeling that there has been some confusion between the rolling averages and the average for rides for this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cue Ball 416 Posted May 12, 2015 I seem to recall that Heat 15 scores don't count towards an average and therefore his taking part in those races would be irrelevant - I may well be wrong of course and no doubt somebody will tell me if I am. If you go by the Sheffield website being accurate, then it seems they were given dodgy information as to the rolling average / average for this season point, in which case it seems harsh on all concerned as they probably wouldn't have gone with him in those circumstances, he would have known the position and Sheffield supporters wouldn't be robbed of seeing a 7 man team for the next however many weeks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted May 12, 2015 I seem to recall that Heat 15 scores don't count towards an average and therefore his taking part in those races would be irrelevant - I may well be wrong of course and no doubt somebody will tell me if I am. Heats 15 counts, always has done. I'm not sure why people think it doesn't. It does seem someone has messed up on the current season/rolling average. But weirdly, the person who told me he had 60 days also said it was a rolling average, so some people did know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,805 Posted May 12, 2015 Isn't that what has happened though? His existing visa has now expired, to obtain a new one he needs a 7pt average. He didn't achieve it. The Sheffield management should have been fully aware of his average after every ride and been doing everything in their power to ensure he finished above 7. Putting him in Heat 15's away from home in meetings that are already lost shows that they quite simply hadn't a clue! Just seen that his visa which began a year ago has expired, if that's the case it presumably makes Proctor slightly different to the other two. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Al Stewart 398 Posted May 12, 2015 Totally speculating now but I'd guess any rider who didn't meet the criteria in March would have been given a temp visa to prove their worth, so Davies, Smith and Sedgmen(now over 7) in addition to Ty. Sedgmen was third in the Australian Championships last winter which qualifies him for a visa. Davies and Smith I presume qualify on the grounds of their 7 point average in their last season. I'm pretty unimpressed that officials being paid by taxpayers waste their time on this drivel, doing nothing but harm. But equally the BSPA should long ago have appointed someone intelligent (if they could have found such a person) who has no other job in speedway, just to oversee all of the work permit situations and ensure that we avoid exactly what has just happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted May 12, 2015 Heats 15 counts, always has done. I'm not sure why people think it doesn't. It does seem someone has messed up on the current season/rolling average. But weirdly, the person who told me he had 60 days also said it was a rolling average, so some people did know. It had to be his rolling average surely. Otherwise teams would be claiming "he averaged 7 in September" etc. This is/was a serious issue. Sheffield should have ensured they had confirmed, in writing, what was required. Simply saying we were told this doesn't wash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spin king 1,923 Posted May 12, 2015 It had to be his rolling average surely. Otherwise teams would be claiming "he averaged 7 in September" etc. This is/was a serious issue. Sheffield should have ensured they had confirmed, in writing, what was required. Simply saying we were told this doesn't wash. Could be similarities to Somerset/ Brady Kurtz situation last season when they claimed they were told. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted May 12, 2015 Could be similarities to Somerset/ Brady Kurtz situation last season when they claimed they were told. So that makes it even worse then as lessons haven't been learnt. This is important stuff, why don't these people get things in writing as any normal business would do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alan_Jones 1,005 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Too many times in the recent past promoters have eagerly jumped on an apparent easing of a regulation, without question, when they really should have been investigating, to the nth degree, whether that really was the situation. Surely everyone knows by now that averages, for the purposes of regulation, are rolling GSAs without bonus points. Edited May 12, 2015 by Alan_Jones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proud panther 1,507 Posted May 12, 2015 Whoever is to blame, its a crying shame that a talented rider is banned from the Premier League when we don't have enough riders to fill all the teams, & we have rubbish foreigners like Konopka Pallavora & Barrett still racing here on sub 4 point averages. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Al Stewart 398 Posted May 12, 2015 When they removed bonus points they dropped the work permit figure from 8 to 7. Can't have it both ways. This not how I recall it. You usually know your stuff but I am pretty sure it went from 7 with bonus to 7 without bonus. I remember being concerned how it would affect Cameron Woodward who was in our team at the time. It may well have been 8 with bonus some time earlier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted May 12, 2015 This not how I recall it. You usually know your stuff but I am pretty sure it went from 7 with bonus to 7 without bonus. I remember being concerned how it would affect Cameron Woodward who was in our team at the time. It may well have been 8 with bonus some time earlier. I thought the same as you when it was discussed on here recently and I'm sure it was agreed it all changed at the same time - about 2001ish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
