Who Was Best, Louis Senior Or Louis Junior?

[BWitcher 12,453]

Agree with everything you say there.

 

There was never a clamour for its removal, why would there be? If you weren't interested, you didn't stay.

 

As regards the interval etc, this is something many of us have raised and is another area the promotion seem way out of touch with the fans on. Speedway is a sport with natural intervals. On freezing cold nights, in a drawn out meeting, to then run an interval does nothing but alienate your fan base.

 

Meetings should be done in 90 mins.

[crazyb 156]

I saw Tiger Louis pass loads of times so he did not gate much when I saw him.

Both excellent riders.

Dad just has the edge.

I must say that John was way the better rider on all sorts of tracks. I never saw Chris ride any good on a wet one

[The White Knight 9,039]

No reinventing of facts here.

 

No doubt costs played a major part in it, nowhere have I disputed that..

 

The facts remain, by the time they were cut, half of the crowd had gone. Why pay out lots of money for a product 50% of your fan base has no interest in?

 

It was an idea that worked in its day but was coming towards the end of its shelf life when it was dispensed with.

Because, even if your figure of 50% (which I contest) is right - that still leaves 50% of Supporters were happy to watch the 'Second Halves' - I know I was. I know too that a lot of the time the Result of the Rider of the Night Final was arranged beforehand - but I still saw some terrific Races. Plus, as others have said, it was a great introduction to Speedway Racing for the Juniors.

 

I, for one, mourn the passing of the 'Second Halves'..

Edited June 8, 2015 by The White Knight

[ZODIAK 304]

I must say that John was way the better rider on all sorts of tracks. I never saw Chris ride any good on a wet one

You obviously never saw Chris win the 2000 British final then with a 15 point maximum in awful conditions...

[stratton 1,491]

To answer the title of the thread, it would have to be John, to me by some distance. No disrespect to Chris but John was a bit special. Considering it was late to start riding, he achieved a great deal in the short time in the sport. Like it has been said the sport was different then. but quality is a bit like the cream in the milk, in that it always rises to the top.

There are lots of differences in the sport, far too many to mention. But my No1. hate now is the CMA. Back in the days when all riders rode against similar opposition, their average was a direct indication of their ability, and the position they held in the team. The 3 heat leaders were say between 7.5 and 11, The second strings say 7 to 5 and the two reserves were 4 and below. There was a direct comparison between all the riders. Now the whole scenario is a joke with all riders CMA within 3 pts of each other. We have 2nd strings with higher average then HL, and Reserves, some even higher than that. Depending on the position they ride, the easier it is to score pts.

 

It was mentioned John Louis average over 11, and that was exceptionally high. There weren't many with a 11 average. Trying to compare that with today you would place him in the top 2 or 3 riders. (Todays CMA, approx. High 8's or low 9's) Its all very well looking at relevant CMA for an indication of ability. but my evaluation comes from within. Having watch speedway for 50 yrs. I've seen some wonderful talented riders. All with their own merits. and make assessments on that basis. I find it difficult to know how people, who have followed the sport for only a few years, can cast opinions based on a few video clips.

 

The sport has changed beyond recognition, Bike are faster, Times are quicker. It now played the world over.

 

Is it better.... No not really........ The empty stadiums answers that question.... Do I still enjoy it........ Of cause I do...

One of the best posts i have read on here for along time i can relate to all of it especially the points about the reserves.Those riders were often the crowd favourites,no world beaters but real team players and often were long serving riders which all us fans could relate to.At Swindon Keen and Hitch were my favourites (not ASHBY ??) both real racers.Also your point about making your own assessments on riders is so right, often you need to forget the figures and averages and go by your own instinct.I don't no what others think wouldn't it be great if we had matches with all riders having there programmed rides and no tactical changes at all the best team on the night then wins.

[Shadders 4,136]

I don't think any father and son have been so closely matched.

Len & Andrew Silver

[Terry 1,319]

Len & Andrew Silver

 

Andrew was the better rider but Len prepared the better track.

..speaking of Rye House, Barry or Dave King?

 

I would say Barry.

[The White Knight 9,039]

George and Terry Barclay rode together for Sunderland 'Stars'.

[Shadders 4,136]

Andrew was the better rider but Len prepared the better track.

 

Len was a pretty decent rider in the old Provincial League. I think he won the PLRC in the early 60's

[The White Knight 9,039]

Len was a pretty decent rider in the old Provincial League. I think he won the PLRC in the early 60's

He did indeed.

 

1962.

[Terry 1,319]

Len was a pretty decent rider in the old Provincial League. I think he won the PLRC in the early 60's

 

I never saw him ride but I thoroughly enjoyed his book.

[Shadders 4,136]

I never saw him ride but I thoroughly enjoyed his book.

I did!!! It was a match race at Rye about 6 or 7 years or so ago between Len & Michael Lee. Lee did 4 laps, Len only has to do 3. I think Len won.

[Terry 1,319]

I did!!! It was a match race at Rye about 6 or 7 years or so ago between Len & Michael Lee. Lee did 4 laps, Len only has to do 3. I think Len won.

 

Damn I don't remember that at all. I must have been out of the country.

 

I certainly wouldn't have missed that.

 

I know he had his problems, but Mike the bike was truly the most talented rider I've ever seen.

 

Topping the national averages at 18. Incredible!

[TonyMac 720]

 

I often wonder how good Dave could've been if he hadn't broken his leg in '77.

There was nothing between him and Chris at that point, although he was a few years older.

He was never the same rider after that.

 

It's strange how some riders can return from serious injury and be just as good as before. Ermolenko, Knudsen, Wiltshire, and other riders can't.

 

Must be a psychological thing I guess..

 

Dave was by far the better gater and, as you say, but for that bad leg break he would probably have gone on to be a consistently high BL points scorer for many seasons - his average was 10+ at the time of his crash.

 

As tracks became slicker in the early 80s, his trapping ability would have boosted his figures had the serious 1977 injury not already taken its toll (think he broke a bone riding for Wolves in '79 too).

 

Having said that, he was never once-paced. When behind, he knew how to find the grip to pass people about three inches from the Hackney fence! A great sight.

Edited June 10, 2015 by tmc

[spanner47 336]

Certainly agree with the old 2nd half races. Many a time at Foxhall during the Tiger, Shrimp and Billy era we had to wait until the Champion of the Evening final to get the best race of the night. As for who's the best? Just a shame Tiger started so late, and Chris had that awful crash in Poland, so maybe we were denied an Ipswich World Champion, but for a small Town in Suffolk, we'll take a couple on the rostrum.