SCB 0 Posted August 20, 2015 Only trouble with that as I said before is that the ref wouldn't have been watching Sarj, he'd have been watching the start line. Therefore Garrity was the cause of the race being stopped. The race would probably have run its full 4 laps without that and James may or may not have been excluded then. In which case, he was watching Sarj and thought it was fine. So he has to exclude Garrity. He has to do one or the other. He can't do both. If a rider jumps the start when all 4 are at the tapes but then someone falls off on the 1st bend then all 4 back is called, the fact someone falls off doesn't matter as the race has technically been stopped by then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Game On 1,117 Posted August 20, 2015 yep he's been doing it on purpose for years True but I've not seem him ride that way this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted August 20, 2015 There's an interesting slow mo video going around from behind Sarj in heat 12. In it, you can see that Sarj has not moved until the tapes start going up. However, it is also clear that he has started moving when the tapes are still at wheel height for the other 3 riders who are still motionless. Therefore, it would appear that he has gained a small advantage over the others. Maybe the ref had access to this angle / speed. I will try and post it on here but don't hold your breath, I'm not very technical! If he hasn't moved before the tapes start going up there is no issue. What the other riders do or don't do is irrelevant.. the whole idea of making a good start is to gain an advantage over your opponents! As long as you do so by moving AFTER the tapes start going up, which you say he did, then nothing is wrong. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,096 Posted August 20, 2015 Fans getting abusive and riders responding has always happened... Dont see the issue. If you give it out, take it back. For instance, I have seen Rory ( as a Coventry rider) get lots of stick from opposing fans and then give it back. Rory used to get his abuse in first!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob VDS 101 Posted August 20, 2015 In which case, he was watching Sarj and thought it was fine. So he has to exclude Garrity. He has to do one or the other. He can't do both. If a rider jumps the start when all 4 are at the tapes but then someone falls off on the 1st bend then all 4 back is called, the fact someone falls off doesn't matter as the race has technically been stopped by then Whether or not he has that remit I don't know. But to me it's clear, Garrity caused the stoppage and was rightly excluded. The ref then either noticed himself or it was brought to his attention that Sarj may have jumped and because he had already been penalised the ref decided to exclude him too. For what it's worth I feel a Re run with 3 riders with sarj off 15m would have been fair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedwaysliders 176 Posted August 20, 2015 Are sky allowed to interview the ref after the meeting? Can team managers come out after the meeting and tell the media what R Allan said to them regarding the double exclusion in heat 12? Will refs speak to fans after the meeting to clear situations up? Is there a referees report per match,where a ref has to say what actions he takes during heats? Like a lot of other people im completely confused what Ronnie Allan did in heat 12.if any of the above can happen it would clear the situation up straight away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weatherwatcher 664 Posted August 20, 2015 Other than that one heat, it was a good nights racing, I think it should have been all 4 back in heat 12, what is done is done and no way can it be changed. A close meeting right up until the end. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrueBee 147 Posted August 20, 2015 Is Rob VDS last night's referee? I'm not even convinced Garrity's exclusion was clear cut, I saw Nevill the Devil at Plymouth go faster around the first 2 bends on his push bike than Morris did in heat 12. He left a gap, Garrity took it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tellboy 3,662 Posted August 20, 2015 Is Rob VDS last night's referee? I'm not even convinced Garrity's exclusion was clear cut, I saw Nevill the Devil at Plymouth go faster around the first 2 bends on his push bike than Morris did in heat 12. He left a gap, Garrity took it. I think it was clear cut,the incident happened right in front of us and there was clearly contact.Why Garrity makes rash decisions like that I don't know.If he had bided his time he had another 4 laps to get Morris in which I'm sure he would have done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted August 20, 2015 I think it was clear cut,the incident happened right in front of us and there was clearly contact.Why Garrity makes rash decisions like that I don't know.If he had bided his time he had another 4 laps to get Morris in which I'm sure he would have done.That is something he has to learn, no points when you're excluded or hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob VDS 101 Posted August 20, 2015 Is Rob VDS last night's referee? I'll give it a go lol how hard can it be??! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gemini 4,894 Posted August 20, 2015 There's an interesting slow mo video going around from behind Sarj in heat 12. In it, you can see that Sarj has not moved until the tapes start going up. However, it is also clear that he has started moving when the tapes are still at wheel height for the other 3 riders who are still motionless. Therefore, it would appear that he has gained a small advantage over the others. Maybe the ref had access to this angle / speed. I will try and post it on here but don't hold your breath, I'm not very technical! I don't know if this link will work or not but I'll give it a go. https://www.facebook.com/keith.andrews.7503/videos/o.165342870196384/383069855237651/?type=2&theater To be fair James would have been watching the right hand side of the tapes and they do seem to go up unevenly, hence the other riders not moving at the same time James did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted August 20, 2015 Is Rob VDS last night's referee? I'm not even convinced Garrity's exclusion was clear cut, I saw Nevill the Devil at Plymouth go faster around the first 2 bends on his push bike than Morris did in heat 12. He left a gap, Garrity took it. I agree - I would have pulled all 4 back. I know he has a bit of a reputation but I thought he was hard done by being excluded 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob VDS 101 Posted August 20, 2015 I don't know if this link will work or not but I'll give it a go. https://www.facebook.com/keith.andrews.7503/videos/o.165342870196384/383069855237651/?type=2&theater To be fair James would have been watching the right hand side of the tapes and they do seem to go up unevenly, hence the other riders not moving at the same time James did. Yes fair point, I think it's more how the 15m rider is set up rather than James doing anything wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agrotron 955 Posted August 20, 2015 Was someone having a pop at Garrity last night as the cameras were on him walking down the pits when excluded and all I heard is he was shouting to them I am a man or something like that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
