National Development League Agm

[Guest]

Stoke should not be allowed any challenge meetings until they have completed all their official fixtures. I seem to have said this before....

 

Basically a good suggestion but not really easy to enforce.

Take this scenario - Stoke have a league/cup match they need to restate. They have an open date and seek a visit by their prospective opponents who decline because they have another match on that same date. Stoke can find no other opponents for a restaged league/cup match available on that date.

On the premise of what you suggest Mike Butler that would mean no meeting on the spare date for Stoke? Or am I missing a more salient point in your suggestion?

[Little Thumper 528]

 

Basically a good suggestion but not really easy to enforce.

Take this scenario - Stoke have a league/cup match they need to restate. They have an open date and seek a visit by their prospective opponents who decline because they have another match on that same date. Stoke can find no other opponents for a restaged league/cup match available on that date.

On the premise of what you suggest Mike Butler that would mean no meeting on the spare date for Stoke? Or am I missing a more salient point in your suggestion?

 

Gustix, in reality you are obviously correct.

But the thrust of Mike,Butler's argument I believe, is that clubs shouldn't be allowed to opt out of meetings they don't fancy and put on pretty pointless meetings which are a handy little money spinner.

Sadly, there doesn't be much attempt by the governing body to send offenders to the Naughty Step,

 

To be honest, I really cannot get excited at the thought of a meaningless Air Fence Challenge between Stoke and Buxton.

You see Stoke compete against Buxton in the various competitions without dreaming up more opportunities for the same old same old.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Little Thumper

[Guest]

Stoke should not be allowed any challenge meetings until they have completed all their official fixtures. I seem to have said this before....

 

 

 

Basically a good suggestion but not really easy to enforce.

Take this scenario - Stoke have a league/cup match they need to restate. They have an open date and seek a visit by their prospective opponents who decline because they have another match on that same date. Stoke can find no other opponents for a restaged league/cup match available on that date.

On the premise of what you suggest Mike Butler that would mean no meeting on the spare date for Stoke? Or am I missing a more salient point in your suggestion?

 

 

 

Gustix, in reality you are obviously correct.

But the thrust of Mike,Butler's argument I believe, is that clubs shouldn't be allowed to opt out of meetings they don't fancy and put on pretty pointless meetings which are a handy little money spinner.

Sadly, there doesn't be much attempt by the governing body to send offenders to the Naughty Step,

 

To be honest, I really cannot get excited at the thought of a meaningless Air Fence Challenge between Stoke and Buxton.

You see Stoke compete against Buxton in the various competitions without dreaming up more opportunities for the same old same old.

 

Thanks for the explanation Little Thumper. I now see the full validity of Mike.Butler's comment.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Guest

[Nathan Mole 13]

See as an Eastie fan I don't have this problem as overall is still £15, however we get a full program which is very much worth your money

[uk_martin 1,606]

Or do you think £1 per minute compares well with other entertainment providers?

Depends if you like what you see. I'm no big football fan so if I was to pay £30- £50 to see a scoreless draw I'd consider that 15 mins of speedway @ £1 per minute would compare quite well.

[Little Thumper 528]

Depends if you like what you see. I'm no big football fan so if I was to pay £30- £50 to see a scoreless draw I'd consider that 15 mins of speedway @ £1 per minute would compare quite well.

 

So, uk martin, we shall have to agree to differ on this one.

You are inclined to consider that speedway represents fair value at £1 per minute.

I am looking for slightly better value for money and would certainly avoid any venue that seeks to increase it's prices by more than the rate of inflation.

We shall see what emerges from the forthcoming conflab.

[uk_martin 1,606]

If prices are set at a realistic level then you don't need concessionary rates for old-timers...£10 admission including complimentary race card with accompanied children (1 per adult) free sounds about right to me.

...and would certainly avoid any venue that seeks to increase it's prices by more than the rate of inflation...

Feel free to disagree, but I can't see the logic of your arguement. On the one hand you say that a "fair" overall price of £10 means that you won't need concessionary admission for old-timers. Having agreed by implication with my point that the average take at some places is about £8 per head because of concessionary admission, meaning that the majority of people coming through the turnstiles a very old or very young, what you are saying is that the majority of fans need to have their admission prices increased from the average of £8 to your "fair" £10.

 

On the basis that this is more than the rate of inflation, you're not going to have too many places left to visit then, if your pricing structure were to be adopted.

[Little Thumper 528]

Feel free to disagree, but I can't see the logic of your arguement. On the one hand you say that a "fair" overall price of £10 means that you won't need concessionary admission for old-timers. Having agreed by implication with my point that the average take at some places is about £8 per head because of concessionary admission, meaning that the majority of people coming through the turnstiles a very old or very young, what you are saying is that the majority of fans need to have their admission prices increased from the average of £8 to your "fair" £10.

 

On the basis that this is more than the rate of inflation, you're not going to have too many places left to visit then, if your pricing structure were to be adopted.

 

I am sorry that I have not made my point with sufficient clarity.

 

In simple terms, I believe that National League speedway is a £10 event.

 

It is perhaps unlikely that this competitive price point targeting will be a strategy that emerges from the NL conflab.

 

On this basis, it is surely reasonable to expect any admission price rises to be no greater than the current rate of inflation.

I am not aware of any justification for suggesting that the inflation rate in the world of speedway is different to the rate in the real world.

[AntiqueSteve 100]

 

I am sorry that I have not made my point with sufficient clarity.

 

In simple terms, I believe that National League speedway is a £10 event.

 

It is perhaps unlikely that this competitive price point targeting will be a strategy that emerges from the NL conflab.

 

On this basis, it is surely reasonable to expect any admission price rises to be no greater than the current rate of inflation.

I am not aware of any justification for suggesting that the inflation rate in the world of speedway is different to the rate in the real world.

You must be having a laugh, ("£10 event") a couple of drinks in the pub !

 

Do you have the faintest idea how much it costs to set up a speedway event and run these kind of bikes ?

 

I think you must be living in another world mate, I don't know any decent sporting events for a tenna. Can you understand what it costs to keep these venues open...first aid, insurances, public liability, staff, safety equipment, shale, advertising/ social media, rider's. In essence the more money in the pot - the more professional speedway can be run.

[Little Thumper 528]

You must be having a laugh, ("£10 event") a couple of drinks in the pub !

 

Do you have the faintest idea how much it costs to set up a speedway event and run these kind of bikes ?

 

I think you must be living in another world mate, I don't know any decent sporting events for a tenna. Can you understand what it costs to keep these venues open...first aid, insurances, public liability, staff, safety equipment, shale, advertising/ social media, rider's. In essence the more money in the pot - the more professional speedway can be run.

 

I can go to 3 Sisters near Wigan and watch a full day's car, kart or bike racing for £5 (children under 16 FOC).

 

I can go to Oulton Park and watch a pretty decent day's sport for £13 and that includes free parking, spotless toilets and a free grandstand seat.

 

I can go to Curborough, Loton Park or Barbon Manor and watch some excellent sprinting or hill climbing for around £10.

 

All these venues seem to be able to pay their insurance, staff, advertising etc etc and still charge a reasonable admission charge.

 

So AntiqueSteve, I do understand what you are saying but the speedway product must compete in a lively market.

 

And to answer your question about whether I understand what it costs to keep venues open, I can reassure you that I am aware of this challenge as I was involved with the promotion and organization of motor sport for over 20 years.

[Nathan Mole 13]

Well from your point their Thumper, it proves that the prices for speedway are likely at the rates that they are because the number of tickets being sold means that most clubs cant reduce their rates any lower as a result

[Jayne 312]

 

I can go to 3 Sisters near Wigan and watch a full day's car, kart or bike racing for £5 (children under 16 FOC).

 

I can go to Oulton Park and watch a pretty decent day's sport for £13 and that includes free parking, spotless toilets and a free grandstand seat.

 

I can go to Curborough, Loton Park or Barbon Manor and watch some excellent sprinting or hill climbing for around £10.

 

All these venues seem to be able to pay their insurance, staff, advertising etc etc and still charge a reasonable admission charge.

 

So AntiqueSteve, I do understand what you are saying but the speedway product must compete in a lively market.

 

And to answer your question about whether I understand what it costs to keep venues open, I can reassure you that I am aware of this challenge as I was involved with the promotion and organization of motor sport for over 20 years.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the competitors at those venues paying to race instead of being paid to race in speedway?

[Little Thumper 528]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the competitors at those venues paying to race instead of being paid to race in speedway?

 

Exactly so, Jayne!

And that is part of the problem for speedway promoters such as yourself.

Competitors at a Clubmans' car meeting at a circuit like Oulton Park will pay in excess of £100 in entry fees.

And many of the drivers will also pay the circuit another £100 to do the test day which is usually on the day before the meeting.

So if you work on the basis that you will have 100 competitors at your meeting, you have got between £10,000 and £20,000 in the bank before you even open the gates! Get a good number of customers coming in, sell them a nice dollop of food and drink and you are laughing.

 

The majority of your race day staff (marshals) are volunteers, so virtually no cost there.

You do have to pay for doctors, timekeepers and commentators and of course, there are all your fixed costs, such as maintenance, insurance, staff salaries etc.

 

And on the days, you haven't got race days, you run car and bike track days, corporate days and experience days. There is very little cost in putting these kinds of activities on and they generate substantial profits for the circuit owner and keep a heallthy cash flow.

 

So, speedway has little chance of competing with the economic model employed by other motor sport offerings, so it's only option is to either cut costs or enhance the product that is being offered.

 

I do not envy the job of the speedway promoter and I sincerely hope that the sport at National League level can survive and prosper.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Little Thumper

[uk_martin 1,606]

I am sorry that I have not made my point with sufficient clarity....

 

Correct, you haven't.

 

Firstly, it really doesn't matter what the headline price is. Whether it's £13 which is then discounted by concessions down to something akin to £8, or whether it's £10 flat rate. What matters is two-fold. Firstly what it means to the fans. Do they pay £8 or do they pay £10, and you'll agree that £10 is more than £8 so your flat rate idea is going to push the cost per "average" (OAP) fan up by 25%. Secondly, what impact does it have on the clubs revenues. Unless you have the research at hand at how much demand will rise or fall depending on whether there's a £1 rise in the price or a £5 reduction in the price, I'd say that this is an unknown factor.

 

This whole panic about inflation is doing my head in. Birmingham, whose admission I've had to pay, started out in the PL in 2007 at £15 per adult. It stood at £15 even in the EL (if I remember rightly, or did it go up to £16, I can't remember now) and now since 2015 it's been at £13 in the NL. I've not heard about any impending price rise, but if the price went up by £1, what sort of rise would that represent in the long term?

 

How can you put a value of £10 on NL speedway? Or any other form of speedway come to that? The value is what people are prepared to pay. Up the road from Perry Barr, not long ago, 50,000 people paid between £30 and £50 to see Usain Bolt for 10 seconds. Is that good value? Or is everyone else wrong?

 

The price is not the game changer for speedway. It's the quality of the product that matters. Despite the stability in the admission price since 2007 and the on-track success of the teams, crowds at Perry Barr have fallen year on year (with a slight blip at the start of the EL era). You can even say that in real terms, the price reduced compared to everything else that was getting more expensive around it. And still the crowds fell. Never once have I heard someone say to me "how much is it in, at the speedway...oh, that's too much" Plenty of times I've heard "nah, it's boring. First out of the start wins" and other disparaging comments about the state of the viewing, or the long delays between races and other things. People have the money to spend if there is value to be had. (as I found out in trying to get a ticket for the Guns'n'Roses gig) Speedway's challenge is in providing better value for the money.

[AntiqueSteve 100]

 

I can go to 3 Sisters near Wigan and watch a full day's car, kart or bike racing for £5 (children under 16 FOC).

 

I can go to Oulton Park and watch a pretty decent day's sport for £13 and that includes free parking, spotless toilets and a free grandstand seat.

 

I can go to Curborough, Loton Park or Barbon Manor and watch some excellent sprinting or hill climbing for around £10.

 

All these venues seem to be able to pay their insurance, staff, advertising etc etc and still charge a reasonable admission charge.

 

So AntiqueSteve, I do understand what you are saying but the speedway product must compete in a lively market.

 

And to answer your question about whether I understand what it costs to keep venues open, I can reassure you that I am aware of this challenge as I was involved with the promotion and organization of motor sport for over 20 years.

Come on....kart racing, hill climbing, not a comparable, sorry we'll just have to disagree

 

I don't begrudge paying because I know what must go into it..........