Belle Vue / Coventry Nl

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

 

And seeing as both clubs appear to have run NL at a loss last year, they can share each other's losses this year.

As the saying goes, " a loss shared is a loss halved"..................or something like that any road up.

 

They are obviously keen to have 12 teams in the league and with 2 tracks with shaky looking futures, they are probably just hedging their bets and hoping that one of the two will pull through.

 

Perhaps rather than Belle Vue + Coventry, it might be Belle Vue or Coventry.

 

I certainly don't think Belle Vue's future is shaky by any means............which is one reason why I am surprised the Colts haven't been entered as a standalone team, I would have thought the attendances for Colts matches last season would have paid their way.

 

 

Who was that?

Well, if a do look a total dick at the beginning of next season because everything in the speedway garden is rosy, then I shall come on here and put myself forward for The Dick of the Month Competition.

 

But what does depress me is all the cloak and dagger and keeping supporters in the dark stuff that seems to go on.

Why do they need to do this?

 

You look at the situations at Belle Vue, Coventry, Leicester and all you hear is tales of shady goings-on, meetings behind closed doors and the various parties plotting against each other.

 

Why does speedway have to operate in this clandestine fashion and why are supporters treated with apparent contempt?

 

So B.V. 72, you may classify me as a Doom and Gloom Merchant and I respect your opinion.

 

I would rather class myself as a Realist and when speedway gets it's house in order, I will be happier than a very happy person.

 

So, who did you say was at the NL AGM representing Belle Vue?

 

Indeed, why do they not post a list of attendees as I am sure supporters would like to know who is fighting their corner?

 

Where a takeover is in progress I would accept that there is a need to keep things confidential until it is actually agreed, although some degree of disclosure such as 'talks are ongoing' is appropriate.

 

I really don't think the BSPA have done anything wrong regarding the situations at Belle Vue or Leicester in terms of public announcement.

 

 

But was that not really just a Scunthorpe side with Sheffield being the junior partners?

 

Yes, it was. Scunthorpe riders but rode a couple of home matches at Owlerton.

[Little Thumper 528]

So, HT, you are a wise person, would you think it reasonable to see a list of the attendees at the NL AGM?

 

Do you not think the supporters would be interested to know who was there and the items on the agenda?

 

Or are we still working on the Need to Know basis?

[Little Thumper 528]

 

I certainly don't think Belle Vue's future is shaky by any means............which is one reason why I am surprised the Colts haven't been entered as a standalone team, I would have thought the attendances for Colts matches last season would have paid their way.

 

 

Where a takeover is in progress I would accept that there is a need to keep things confidential until it is actually agreed, although some degree of disclosure such as 'talks are ongoing' is appropriate.

 

I really don't think the BSPA have done anything wrong regarding the situations at Belle Vue or Leicester in terms of public announcement.

 

 

Yes, it was. Scunthorpe riders but rode a couple of home matches at Owlerton.

 

You couldn't possibly know that unless you know what costs were incurred.

As the Belle Vue financial position appears so diabolical that they were unable to pay the majority of their bills, it would be hard to see how the Colts meetings were generating a profit.

 

"Talks are ongoing" wears just a little thin after a while and it would be nice to know just a little about what direction these talks were going in.

 

But not wishing to appear a merchant of doom, I shall follow your example and put my faith in the men in the shadows.

Do you ever look on the bright side as i cant remember reading any of your posts that you have re speedway.You just seem to be a doom and gloom mechant who stands on a soap box and preaches the word of thumper. If you have the same outlook in life in general i am suprised you have not topped yourself.Good things do happen in life and when B/vue come to the tapes next season and beyond you could look like a bit of a ----

The positive side to this looking on the bright side is that someone from the new promotion was at the Nat league AGM to make this decision so i read into it that things are looking good and that they are getting their house in order for next season.

 

The Merchant of Doom here again, I'm afraid.

 

Not looking hugely promising at the moment for the new Belle Vue/Coventry Combo:-

 

https://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/brandon-estates-confirm-no-parties-involved-in-talks-amid-crime-scene-coventry-stadium-situation/

 

But hey, worse disasters at sea and who needs seats or lighting?

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

So, HT, you are a wise person, would you think it reasonable to see a list of the attendees at the NL AGM?

 

Do you not think the supporters would be interested to know who was there and the items on the agenda?

 

Or are we still working on the Need to Know basis?

 

Yes, I think that's perfectly reasonable. After all, why not ? In truth, I see no reason why we couldn't see the voting either.

 

The only thing I would say is if there was someone from Belle Vue I would say they have the right to remain anonymous because of the potential takeover.

 

 

You couldn't possibly know that unless you know what costs were incurred.

As the Belle Vue financial position appears so diabolical that they were unable to pay the majority of their bills, it would be hard to see how the Colts meetings were generating a profit.

 

"Talks are ongoing" wears just a little thin after a while and it would be nice to know just a little about what direction these talks were going in.

 

But not wishing to appear a merchant of doom, I shall follow your example and put my faith in the men in the shadows.

 

In truth, I don't know that for certain by any means but I would have been surprised if they were losing money.

 

I actually think that given the gates they had it is possible that the Aces made money, too. The problem was not the ongoing 2016, but the vast burden of debt carried forward from Kirky Lane and the disastrous outcome of the Peter Craven meeting, which I suspect was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

Yes, it does, although we have had public confirmation that the Aces and the Colts will run in 2017 and that the talks are positive. I just don't happen to believe that if there is a potential buyer we have any right to know any more than that. I accept it will be a case of wait and see, however frustrating that might be.

[gee jay 234]

so who is the 3rd party that did the damage and why ?

[Little Thumper 528]

 

Yes, I think that's perfectly reasonable. After all, why not ? In truth, I see no reason why we couldn't see the voting either.

 

The only thing I would say is if there was someone from Belle Vue I would say they have the right to remain anonymous because of the potential takeover.

 

 

In truth, I don't know that for certain by any means but I would have been surprised if they were losing money.

 

I actually think that given the gates they had it is possible that the Aces made money, too. The problem was not the ongoing 2016, but the vast burden of debt carried forward from Kirky Lane and the disastrous outcome of the Peter Craven meeting, which I suspect was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

Yes, it does, although we have had public confirmation that the Aces and the Colts will run in 2017 and that the talks are positive. I just don't happen to believe that if there is a potential buyer we have any right to know any more than that. I accept it will be a case of wait and see, however frustrating that might be.

 

Well. we have been told that there was somebody from Belle Vue there, we are just not being told who it was or what party they were representing.

 

I wonder if the other NL wallahs who were present, knew BV's new man/woman?

Showing my age a little here but perhaps it was a Kendo Nagasaki type of character who is unknown to both supporters who pay to keep speedway afloat and to his/her fellow combatants?

 

Or is this new BV Champion a Two-Hatter?

Perhaps the promotions at Belle Vue and Coventry are even more tightly linked than a bit of sharing the same changing rooms type camaraderie?

 

Or perhaps, the BV representative was theoretical rather than actual?

 

 

Who Is Racing Where?

...........A Drama In Many Parts..................To Be Continued.................Acme Productions Inc.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Little Thumper

[B.V 72 1,054]

Thumper be patiant if you look for them there are good signs.

Talks are on going and the chairman of the BSPA says they are going well why dont you believe him.

With the right deal new promoters are willing to put their time and money into Belle vue so they think that the club has a viable future so why dont you.

Someone has made the decision that the colts intend to run next year and someone has done a deal with Horton to amalgermate the teams this to me can only be the new promoters who else would have the interest to do so.

Most of the other Prem teams are nearly compleat but apart from Nicholls most of last years team have not signed for anyone else what do you think they are waiting for or do you think they dont want to ride in the Prem league next year.Or do you think that the new promoter has done deals with them for next year.All the above looks to me that the new promoter is active in all decisions relating to Belle vue next year.I also believe that there was a lot more than we will ever know going on with the old promotion ie old debts and much more etc.The crowds at Belle vue are very good for speedway and if other clubs can afford to run each year with the right promotion the right deal with the council and a clean slate i can see Belle vue running for years to come.

Now none of the above are facts but its me looking on the bright side putting things i have read in a positive manner.Where as you have taken every thing you have read in a negative mannor and are looking on the dark side time will tell which one of us is right.

Edited December 15, 2016 by B.V 72

[Little Thumper 528]

Thumper be patiant if you look for them there are good signs.

Talks are on going and the chairman of the BSPA says they are going well why dont you believe him.

With the right deal new promoters are willing to put their time and money into Belle vue so they think that the club has a viable future so why dont you.

Someone has made the decision that the colts intend to run next year and someone has done a deal with Horton to amalgermate the teams this to me can only be the new promoters who else would have the interest to do so.

Most of the other Prem teams are nearly compleat but apart from Nicholls most of last years team have not signed for anyone else what do you think they are waiting for or do you think they dont want to ride in the Prem league next year.Or do you think that the new promoter has done deals with them for next year.All the above looks to me that the new promoter is active in all decisions relating to Belle vue next year.I also believe that there was a lot more than we will ever know going on with the old promotion ie old debts and much more etc.The crowds at Belle vue are very good for speedway and if other clubs can afford to run each year with the right promotion the right deal with the council and a clean slate i can see Belle vue running for years to come.

Now none of the above are facts but its me looking on the bright side putting things i have read in a positive manner.Where as you have taken every thing you have read in a negative mannor and are looking on the dark side time will tell which one of us is right.

 

I hope you are right.

 

My only point is this. If all the signs are so positive, why cannot the supporters be told a little more?

 

If deals are being done with riders which are legally binding, then surely the new promoter must have already signed a deal to take over the promotion.

How else could he or she be a party to a contract if they are not a legal entity?

 

The idea of wiping the slate clean is smashing.

But who will recompense the rate payers of Manchester for the monies which have apparently been lost?

 

I am thinking that B.V 72, my friend, you are a little nearer to the source of this information than myself.

I admire your optimism and I am sincerely hoping that your hopeful, positive forecast is based on knowledge received rather than wishful thinking.

 

If there is good news, I am sure that all efforts will be made to get it out before the end of the year, as this will be a great relief to many worried supporters.

 

[B.V 72 1,054]

 

I hope you are right.

 

My only point is this. If all the signs are so positive, why cannot the supporters be told a little more?

 

If deals are being done with riders which are legally binding, then surely the new promoter must have already signed a deal to take over the promotion.

How else could he or she be a party to a contract if they are not a legal entity?

 

The idea of wiping the slate clean is smashing.

But who will recompense the rate payers of Manchester for the monies which have apparently been lost?

 

I am thinking that B.V 72, my friend, you are a little nearer to the source of this information than myself.

I admire your optimism and I am sincerely hoping that your hopeful, positive forecast is based on knowledge received rather than wishful thinking.

 

If there is good news, I am sure that all efforts will be made to get it out before the end of the year, as this will be a great relief to many worried supporters.

 

Thumper my friend i have no more info than you have all i am pointing out to you is that with the info that is out there i am looking at the positive side where as you only seem to see the dark side.

Re deals with riders at this stage it could just be verbal contracts but if that is the case they must have as much confidence that Belle vue will run as i have because nearly all the team places in the Prem league have gone.What other reason can you give why they have not signed for anyone else

And as for who will recompense the rate payers.I would think that problem is between the council and the old promotion as they both seem to have played a part in this massive cock up.As i see it all the new promotion are doing is seeing if they can do a deal with the council to run speedway in a empty stadium,and the council are looking at ways of generating money from said empty stadium.So what has what has gone on in the past go to do with them.If the deal falls through and another sport wanted to use the stadium would the council expect them to pay off the old debt before they could use it of course not.

Again Thumper no facts just the way i see it.

May the force be with you (dark side pun)lol.

[teaboy279 1,038]

If riders went unpaid, and no rent has been paid at all. I would suggest that the Colts certainly run at a massive project.

[Jayne 312]

So, HT, you are a wise person, would you think it reasonable to see a list of the attendees at the NL AGM?

 

Do you not think the supporters would be interested to know who was there and the items on the agenda?

 

Or are we still working on the Need to Know basis?

 

Why would you expect to see a list of attendees or an agenda if you are not part of the meeting? I have never known an organisation/company divulge these details to those outside it.

[Little Thumper 528]

 

Why would you expect to see a list of attendees or an agenda if you are not part of the meeting? I have never known an organisation/company divulge these details to those outside it.

 

Well, here are some organizations that seem happy to do so:-

 

British Orienteering:-

https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/images/uploaded/downloads/Board%20Minutes%20September%202016.pdf

 

UK Sport:-

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/resources/board-minutes

 

Cycling UK:-

http://www.cyclinguk.org/about/cycling-uk-board/meetings

 

USA Weightlifting:-

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Weightlifting/About-Us/Governance-and-Financial/Board-of-Directors/Board-Meeting-Minutes

 

Derbyshire County Council:-

http://derbyshire.gov.uk/council/meetings_decisions/meetings/full_council/7122016_council.asp

 

Speedway Australia:-

http://www.ma.org.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Event_Documents/2015/Speedway_Commission_Minutes.pdf

 

Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee:-

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/minutes/Documents/mpc/pdf/2014/mpc1401.pdf

 

Auto Cycle Union National Council:-

http://www.southeasttrialscombine.org.uk/NATIONAL%20COUNCIL%20MINS%20190512%20(2).pdf

 

British Judo:-

http://www.britishjudo.org.uk/the-british-judo-association/governance/board-of-directors/meeting-minutes/

 

South Australia Classic Speedway:-

http://www.saclassicspeedway.com.au/upload/General%20Meeting%20Minutes%202%20June%202015.docx

 

Scottish Auto Cycle Union:-

http://www.sacu.co.uk/sacu/meeting-minutes/

 

National Trust:-

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/documents/2014-agm-minutes.pdf

 

British Akido Association:-

http://www.aikido-baa.org.uk/about-us/executive-committee/agm-minutes/

 

English Lacrosse Association:-

https://englacrosse.s3.amazonaws.com/media/2012/08/ELA2012-AGM-Minutes.pdf

 

National Auto Grass Sport Association:-

http://www.national-autograss.co.uk/archive.php

 

So, clearly you are saying that a meeting of speedway clubs is somehow different?

 

Thanks

Edited December 16, 2016 by Little Thumper

[Jayne 312]

 

Well, here are some organizations that seem happy to do so:-

 

British Orienteering:-

https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/images/uploaded/downloads/Board%20Minutes%20September%202016.pdf

 

UK Sport:-

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/resources/board-minutes

 

Cycling UK:-

http://www.cyclinguk.org/about/cycling-uk-board/meetings

 

USA Weightlifting:-

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Weightlifting/About-Us/Governance-and-Financial/Board-of-Directors/Board-Meeting-Minutes

 

Derbyshire County Council:-

http://derbyshire.gov.uk/council/meetings_decisions/meetings/full_council/7122016_council.asp

 

Speedway Australia:-

http://www.ma.org.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Event_Documents/2015/Speedway_Commission_Minutes.pdf

 

Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee:-

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/minutes/Documents/mpc/pdf/2014/mpc1401.pdf

 

Auto Cycle Union National Council:-

http://www.southeasttrialscombine.org.uk/NATIONAL%20COUNCIL%20MINS%20190512%20(2).pdf

 

British Judo:-

http://www.britishjudo.org.uk/the-british-judo-association/governance/board-of-directors/meeting-minutes/

 

South Australia Classic Speedway:-

http://www.saclassicspeedway.com.au/upload/General%20Meeting%20Minutes%202%20June%202015.docx

 

Scottish Auto Cycle Union:-

http://www.sacu.co.uk/sacu/meeting-minutes/

 

National Trust:-

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/documents/2014-agm-minutes.pdf

 

British Akido Association:-

http://www.aikido-baa.org.uk/about-us/executive-committee/agm-minutes/

 

English Lacrosse Association:-

https://englacrosse.s3.amazonaws.com/media/2012/08/ELA2012-AGM-Minutes.pdf

 

National Auto Grass Sport Association:-

http://www.national-autograss.co.uk/archive.php

 

So, clearly you are saying that a meeting of speedway clubs is somehow different?

 

Thanks

My mistake as I always thought that discussions at an AGM were not made public. Not sure that I would want it to be either but not my decision.

[birchfield aces 5]

My mistake as I always thought that discussions at an AGM were not made public. Not sure that I would want it to be either but not my decision.

I agree that discussions at an AGM are not made public, after all results of those discussions are available in press announcements. As a supporter I think I should be able to know who was there, which representatives from which clubs.

[Little Thumper 528]

I agree that discussions at an AGM are not made public, after all results of those discussions are available in press announcements. As a supporter I think I should be able to know who was there, which representatives from which clubs.

 

Yes, birchfield aces, I hear what you are saying.

Sadly, the press releases from such meetings only report a few carefully selected highlights.

 

Surely, it would not be unreasonable to expect to see the agenda, the list of attendees, the summary of the arguments put forward for each item and the decision reached for each matter?

 

It should not be an "A" said this and "B" said that kind of thing, That is not how it usually works.

 

Where a matter is sensitive, for example where a particular individual is being discussed, then it would not be reasonable for this information to be put in the public domain.

 

Sometimes when there is an apparent cloak of secrecy wrapped round things, it makes us, the supporters/customers, feel disconnected from something that they feel pretty passionate about and they start to wonder what might be going on that is so highly confidential.