The Greatest Riders

[Guest]

::: THIS is a revised version of the list for the period 1949-68 placed previously as message 37 in this thread on December 13, 2016:

 

Here is my list for the period 1949-68:

(1) Ove Fundin

(2) Barry Briggs

(3) Jack Young

(4) Vic Duggan

(5) Ronnie Moore

(6) Peter Craven

(7) Jack Parker

(8) Tommy Price

(9) Ivan Mauger

(10) Aub Lawson

(11) Igor Plechanov

(12) Ron How

(13) Olle Nygren

(14) Bjorn Knutsson

(15) Norman Parker

(16) Wilbur Lamoreaux

(17) Sverre Harrfeldt

(18) Brian Crutcher

(19) Nigel Boocock

(20) Ken McKinlay

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

 

 

How can you exclude from this list Freddie Williams a double world champion and runner up as well. Interesting that you put 4 Wembley riders above him

 

 

I agree MTM - there must be a place for Freddie who was one of my heroes.

 

The List is excellent apart from that - I would have to drop McKinley or Boocock in order to fit Williams in. I would have him a lot higher up the List too - certainly in the top fifteen bearing in mind that both of his World Championships were won at Wembley, his Home Track.

 

These lists are personal opinions. Mine for 1949-68 has had some approval. Freddie Williams has not been detailed by me - but I stand by the list I have place and it has met with some approval.

All I can suggest, and it's in accord with what this thread is supposed to be - members opinions - that you compose an alternative list to mine and place Freddie Williams as one of choices. Oh - and if you do that, it will give me the opportunity to ask why you have left 'somebody' off your list?

Remember, my List is just my opinion - it's not the 'be all and end all' of the matter.

Have fun!

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[waiheke1 4,295]

::: THIS is a revised version of the list for the period 1949-68 placed previously as message 37 in this thread on December 13, 2016:

 

Here is my list for the period 1949-68:

(1) Ove Fundin

(2) Barry Briggs

(3) Jack Young

(4) Vic Duggan

(5) Ronnie Moore

(6) Peter Craven

(7) Jack Parker

(8) Tommy Price

(9) Ivan Mauger

(10) Aub Lawson

(11) Igor Plechanov

(12) Ron How

(13) Olle Nygren

(14) Bjorn Knutsson

(15) Norman Parker

(16) Wilbur Lamoreaux

(17) Sverre Harrfeldt

(18) Brian Crutcher

(19) Nigel Boocock

(20) Ken McKinlay

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.

And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How?

Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

[Guest]

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.

And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How?

Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

I suggest you compose an alternative list to mine and if you do it will give me the opportunity to ask why you have left 'somebody' off your list?

Remember, my List is just my opinion - it's not the 'be all and end all' of the matter.

Have fun!

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[iris123 20,993]

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.

And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How?

Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

As i mentioned before,i would question the inclusion of Lammy who rode 1 year over the likes of say Michanek,who qualified for a couple of world finals in that period and say Göte Nordin

 

Always hard to decide if 1 good season counts more than a few not quite so good ones.Then we could say should Claude Rye be chosen for the pre-war period as he had a pretty good league season finishing i think around 3rd in the averages and also won a world title in Paris...plus another one a year later.But i think he did beat Wilkinson one year as well as another who could be included,Billy Lamont

Edited December 17, 2016 by iris123

[waiheke1 4,295]

I suggest you compose an alternative list to mine and if you do it will give me the opportunity to ask why you have left 'somebody' off your list?

Remember, my List is just my opinion - it's not the 'be all and end all' of the matter.

Have fun!

Why so defensive? Surely the point of such lists is to debate them.

I've said I think it is generally a good list.

Surely it's valid to query the omission of a double world champ, or why one of the "big five" is so low.

My knowledge of the era is far lower than yours I'm sure, given I was born 10 years after the end of it. If you want to pull a list of mine apart, I've provided mine for the two subsequent eras. Where all you queried was which Morton I included in the era 69-88, somewhat strangely asking if it was Wal or Val?

Edited December 17, 2016 by waihekeaces1

[Guest]

Why so defensive? Surely the point of such lists is to debate them.

I've said I think it is generally a good list.

Surely it's valid to query the omission of a double world champ, or why one of the "big five" is so low.

My knowledge of the era is far lower than yours I'm sure, given I was born 10 years after the end of it. If you want to pull a list of mine apart, I've provided mine for the two subsequent eras. Where all you queried was which Morton I included in the era 69-88, somewhat strangely asking if it was Wal or Val?

 

TBH your list in message 24 was extremely hard to define. No full names - nicknames in some cases like Woffy or just partial names like Emil and Jan 0 - not really something to spend a lot of time looking at.

And giving just surnames does really cause confusion. That was the reason why I made the Morton query. I guessed that you did mean Chris for that period but not wishing to play guessing games with you I deliberately highlighted Wal and Val of the Morton surname rather than Chris and Dave.

As i mentioned before,i would question the inclusion of Lammy who rode 1 year over the likes of say Michanek,who qualified for a couple of world finals in that period and say Göte Nordin

 

 

Wilbur Lamoreaux had TWO post-war seasons in the UK. In 1949 for Wembley and 1950 for Birmingham. Pre-war he spent three seasons with Wimbledon. He also finished fifth in the 1949 World Championship.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

To be honest i want to see Iris/aces 1 )in a real good debate TOGETHER 😜😞😞great to see✌️️Both on my wavelengh ?

Edited December 17, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[Guest]

To be honest i want to see Iris/aces 1 )in a real good debate TOGETHER great to see✌️️

 

Sidney the robin - I think you mean waihekeaces1 and not aces1?

Spare us that please! ONLY A JOKE!

::::: Let's get the thread back to what it is meant to be about please. Who is going to set things in motion in regard to -

Eras to come -

1969-1988

1989- to present times

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[waiheke1 4,295]

Not sure there is any ambiguity over the identities of any rider on my list.

Tbh if you don't know who woffy emil or Jan o are, then you are probably correct in not commenting on the list.

To be honest i want to see Iris/aces 1 )in a real good debate TOGETHER 😜😞😞great to see✌️️Both on my wavelengh ?

How about your list from 69-88 sid? Or thoughts on mine. I'm sure you'd query muly omission of crump, and tbh if I redraft I think I'd need to fit him in there. I'd say my list is also biased towards the latter half of that era.

[iris123 20,993]

To be honest i want to see Iris/aces 1 )in a real good debate TOGETHER great to see✌️️Both on my wavelengh ?

Well i did start a list on the Farndon thread of the best England-Australian pre-war riders.It might have been that list that was the inspiration for this thread.In reality you would only add the American riders to the best English and Australians.I could only see maybe Kilmister of NZ and Gibbs of Canada as outside contenders.Though as i mentioned previously would someone like Rye make it because of one great season or do you go for someone who had a number of decent seasons?All a matter of opinion

 

Unlike cyclone,who put up a good list i do feel the test meetings between England and Australia were some of the big big meetings pre-war and should also be taken into consideration

 

 

 

Wilbur Lamoreaux had TWO post-war seasons in the UK. In 1949 for Wembley and 1950 for Birmingham. Pre-war he spent three seasons with Wimbledon. He also finished fifth in the 1949 World Championship.

I thought he rode for Birmingham in 1949? At least on Speedway Researcher he is included in the NL averages for Birmingham that year and is not in the 1950 averages.Maybe you have made a mistake?The excellent site has Lammy riding for the Lions in 1948

 

http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/1950/nl1averages.pdf

Edited December 17, 2016 by iris123

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Why so defensive? Surely the point of such lists is to debate them.

I've said I think it is generally a good list.

Surely it's valid to query the omission of a double world champ, or why one of the "big five" is so low.

My knowledge of the era is far lower than yours I'm sure, given I was born 10 years after the end of it. If you want to pull a list of mine apart, I've provided mine for the two subsequent eras. Where all you queried was which Morton I included in the era 69-88, somewhat strangely asking if it was Wal or Val?

Not sure there is any ambiguity over the identities of any rider on my list.

Tbh if you don't know who woffy emil or Jan o are, then you are probably correct in not commenting on the list.

How about your list from 69-88 sid? Or thoughts on mine. I'm sure you'd query muly omission of crump, and tbh if I redraft I think I'd need to fit him in there. I'd say my list is also biased towards the latter half of that era.

To be honest i dont really like those years aces1,!!! for me the late 60s/ late 80s are years apart a great read love reading through other's opinion's have really enjoyed the thread.😀 Edited December 17, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[Guest]

Well i did start a list on the Farndon thread of the best England-Australian pre-war riders.It might have been that list that was the inspiration for this thread.In reality you would only add the American riders to the best English and Australians.I could only see maybe Kilmister of NZ and Gibbs of Canada as outside contenders.Though as i mentioned previously would someone like Rye make it because of one great season or do you go for someone who had a number of decent seasons?All a matter of opinion

 

Unlike cyclone,who put up a good list i do feel the test meetings between England and Australia were some of the big big meetings pre-war and should also be taken into consideration

I thought he rode for Birmingham in 1949? At least on Speedway Researcher he is included in the NL averages for Birmingham that year and is not in the 1950 averages.Maybe you have made a mistake?The excellent site has Lammy riding for the Lions in 1948

 

http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/1950/nl1averages.pdf

 

You are correct. I was one year ahead in both cases. Wilbur Lamoreaux was at Wembley in 1948, then Birmingham in 1949.

 

You name Jimmy Gibb of Canada - 1938 and 1939 at West Ham, then in 1949 and 1951 with Wimbledon. He was a very good rider. But don't forget Canada's other top liner Eric Chitty - West Ham from 1936 to 1939, then again from 1946 until the early 1950s (possibly 1953?).

Not sure there is any ambiguity over the identities of any rider on my list.

Tbh if you don't know who woffy emil or Jan o are, then you are probably correct in not commenting on the list.

How about your list from 69-88 sid? Or thoughts on mine. I'm sure you'd query muly omission of crump, and tbh if I redraft I think I'd need to fit him in there. I'd say my list is also biased towards the latter half of that era.

 

You are struggling to justify making low-class identities of riders. Laziness might be the answer in my opinion. Try this one from me - a favourite 1940s rider of mine was Doug Mac! Does that mean anything to you?

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

::::: Let's get the thread back to what it is meant to be about please. Who is going to set things in motion in regard to -

Eras to come -

 

1969-1988
1989- to present times

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Off the subject a bit how many people liked the one off final format.? What are the elder statesmen opinions ie) Bobbath,Custom,Norbold, Gustix,BL (ect) are they now engrossed in the GP series or do they miss the GOOD OLD DAYS.😧😳

Edited December 18, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[Guest]

Off the subject a bit how many people liked the one off final format.? What are the elder statesmen opinions ie) Bobbath,Custom,Norbold, Gustix,BL (ect) are they now engrossed in the GP series or do they miss the GOOD OLD DAYS.

 

I used tom enjoy the excitement of a one-off world final. But speedway has moved on and IMO the Grand Prix system is a success.

I doubt very much if speedway would be able to handle a qualifying system for an 'old style' world championship any more. Times have moved on.

 

::::: Let's get the thread back to what it is meant to be about please. Who is going to set things in motion in regard to -

Eras to come -

 

1969-1988

1989- to present times

 

 

As I mention in my quote, the real theme of this thread seems to be falling away. Who is going to set these two eras into debate on here?