Call me wolfie 677 Posted September 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: I did not quote selective parts, you did. The "No more than 2 changes, except for cases of long term injury" was specific to the Premiership, so overrode (if you'll pardon the pun) anything else. No doubt you'll be delighted to see that the Witches have now been shafted by the Regulations regarding their use of Joe Thompson as a Guest in the Rising Star position. I can't see anything at all in the Regs to prevent them form using him. The no more than 2 changes rule may be specific to the premiership, as you say, but as I've said that just means you could make additional changes to your line up in cases of long term injury. Why should that override a regulation stating no team changes to be made after said date except riders RETURNING from long term injury. The intention of the regulations is clear. Regarding Joe, if there's nothing in the regulations stopping him, then he should be allowed to ride, I've not felt the need to check the regs regarding this but I'll take your word for it on that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,670 Posted September 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: So BSPL media releases carry the same weight as Hansard In this context pretty obviously yes (along with BSPL AGM minutes) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Jacobs 554 Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, arnieg said: In this context pretty obviously yes (along with BSPL AGM minutes) In that case, I'll go to the library and check the BSPL minutes ... along with all the other stuff that's readily available in this splendidly transparent sport. Edited September 21, 2023 by Roger Jacobs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 21, 2023 17 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: So you admit if a 2nd team wanted to use Harris they could. It takes an non-binding gentleman's agreement to prevent it A legal challenge would allow it..... Yes. But it's unlikely to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 21, 2023 17 hours ago, arnieg said: If you are a lawyer then presumably you are familiar with Hart v Pepper. Bret Hart ??? lol No I'm not a lawyer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,670 Posted September 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: In that case, I'll go to the library and check the BSPL minutes ... along with all the other stuff that's readily available in this splendidly transparent sport. But the litigant in any case would be a member of the BSPL and would have access to such documents. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 21, 2023 17 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said: There is a difference??? The wording was: "This permits changes to the team on 2 occasions, except for proven long term injury." There is no ambiguity. As I have stated several times before, both Sheffield and Ipswich used this Regulation to their advantage, and in both cases the proven long term injury was just 6 weeks! In Sheffield's case the injured rider never returned to their 1-7, even though he was fit enough to ride in the Championship, because they realised they were stronger with the change they made. If the intention was for something different, the BSPA/SCB should have written the Regulation to reflect that. You can't say: "that's not what we meant", it wouldn't stand up in Primary School, let alone a court. Correct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Jacobs 554 Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Call me wolfie said: The no more than 2 changes rule may be specific to the premiership, as you say, but as I've said that just means you could make additional changes to your line up in cases of long term injury. Why should that override a regulation stating no team changes to be made after said date except riders RETURNING from long term injury. The intention of the regulations is clear. Regarding Joe, if there's nothing in the regulations stopping him, then he should be allowed to ride, I've not felt the need to check the regs regarding this but I'll take your word for it on that one. Except the "intention" of the Regs is nothing to do with what they actually say, and that was proved by Belle Vue. Thanks for the support re: the Joe Thompson decision. The BSPL has quoted the 8 day rule - it seems they think it is open to interpretation. Unfortunately, it seems that Chris Louis has rolled over and accepted the ruling "in the best interests of the sport", when what he should be doing is standing firm, as Belle Vue did, and challenge the interpretation of the Regs absolutely in the best interests of the sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: Except the "intention" of the Regs is nothing to do with what they actually say, and that was proved by Belle Vue. Thanks for the support re: the Joe Thompson decision. The BSPL has quoted the 8 day rule - it seems they think it is open to interpretation. Unfortunately, it seems that Chris Louis has rolled over and accepted the ruling "in the best interests of the sport", when what he should be doing is standing firm, as Belle Vue did, and challenge the interpretation of the Regs absolutely in the best interests of the sport. Just feel a little sad that it's become all about bending and twisting the rules and finding loopholes etc especially as it had such a profound effect on the outcome of the playoffs. As you say though, it's sad for Joe, it would have been a good experience for him Edited September 21, 2023 by Call me wolfie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: Just feel a little sad that it's become all about bending and twisting the rules and finding loopholes etc especially as it had such a profound effect on the outcome of the playoffs. As you say though, it's sad for Joe, it would have been a good experience for him Something we agree on. It's not right imo that he can't ride and it's a huge blow to Ipswich as jack Smith isn't prem standard. Although in any one off race he could be a spoiler I don't see Jack troubling the scores too much tonight or Monday. In terms of the play offs as a whole, it's fallen for Wolves who are now favourites to win it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,829 Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/19/2023 at 6:20 PM, Roger Jacobs said: BV didn't replace their #1 "just for the play-offs", they replaced him when they had to because of injury. But replaced him AFTER the cut off and only ever been allowed to happen once in the history of play offs. On 9/20/2023 at 1:01 PM, SUPERACE said: Hi signed after Fricke got a season ending injury. Which was before the play offs started, so no not during but before. But after the cut off date to replace a rider, again only ever permitted one year in play off history. On 9/20/2023 at 1:42 PM, Call me wolfie said: The rules weren't intended to allow it to happen hence the original attempt to sign him was rejected. It was only when Lemon threatened legal action because the rules were so poorly written that it was finally allowed. No one was allowed to due it in the years prior and no one's allowed to do it now. That's why it's such a sore point with many. Exactly this, spot on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoweRacing143 17 Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, SUPERACE said: Something we agree on. It's not right imo that he can't ride and it's a huge blow to Ipswich as jack Smith isn't prem standard. Although in any one off race he could be a spoiler I don't see Jack troubling the scores too much tonight or Monday. In terms of the play offs as a whole, it's fallen for Wolves who are now favourites to win it. https://twitter.com/wtssparta/status/1704845684791275990?s=46&t=7di2TW1f9XBUYzjBttGt8A I think wolves test may have just gotten a fair bit harder seeing as woffy is back riding. Hopefully he can ride this weekend and stay fit for the upcoming fixtures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, LoweRacing143 said: https://twitter.com/wtssparta/status/1704845684791275990?s=46&t=7di2TW1f9XBUYzjBttGt8A I think wolves test may have just gotten a fair bit harder seeing as woffy is back riding. Hopefully he can ride this weekend and stay fit for the upcoming fixtures. 2 meetings in 2 days may be too much for him, plus will Wroclaw let him ride? It will be a bumper crowd at Monmore if he does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,621 Posted September 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: 2 meetings in 2 days may be too much for him, plus will Wroclaw let him ride? It will be a bumper crowd at Monmore if he does. Why would they be worried that's he rides on the Monday? Surely there season ends on Sunday 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeW436 610 Posted September 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: 2 meetings in 2 days may be too much for him, plus will Wroclaw let him ride? It will be a bumper crowd at Monmore if he does. Wrocław season is over either way on Sunday. Will be up to Tai if he wants to ride or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
