Referees decisions

[Alcoholic Mathematician 0]

1. All three were on different paths that converged at the same time. I think the ref was right as all three were involved and no individual was the main cause.

 

2. Just before making his move on Brhel, Pedersen lifted. Only for a split second, but it took him closer to Brhel than if he hadn't. Not a dirty move by any means, just over-riding. Very similar to Gollob's pass in Heat 21, but Gollob had more room. Brhel wouldn't have fallen if Pedersen had not attempted the pass in that way. I think the ref was right.

 

3. Not, repeat, not the same circumstances as in Heat 16, in which the collision happened much further along the straight and involved three riders. Pedersen could see Hancock was setting-up an outside run coming off the second bend, and moved out to block him. There is a huge difference between blocking someone and squeezing them right up against the fence, but Pedersen did the latter in a very reckless way. Hancock would not have fallen if Pedersen had left him enough room. I think the ref was wrong.

 

It's the frequency with which Pedersen is involved in such incidents that has angered so many. I'm sure we'd all forgive and forget a one-off incident. Pedersen does this sort of thing all the time. I vehemently disagree with the argument that he puts bums on seats and makes things more exciting. It's only a matter of time before Pedersen causes someone a serious injury or worse.

Edited May 16, 2004 by Alcoholic Mathematician

[Dave the Mic 258]

Not posted on this forum before, so Hi everyone. I found it by typing some phrases in google & these threads about last night's GP came up. I had to look as I was so incensed by what I saw go on.

 

I am an announcer at a track in the UK (and have announced at three other tracks in the past), so am in a privileged position, I guess. I have got to work with many referees past & present, so this thread intrigues me more than the one about Pedersen being dirty, although I may be tempted to post on that one too

 

The incident between Pedersen & Brhel was clear cut & I feel that most referees would have seen it the same way. There may not have been much contact, but the fact is, Pedersen pushed Brhel over & this caused the fall. Therefore, I don't see that the referee had much choice.

 

The incident where Tony fell was less obvious, clearly. They all moved over & he ran out of room. It could have been so much worse & I was glad to see him make a full & speedy recovery. Whilst the referee showed "common sense" he took an easy way out in a lot of ways. There is absolutley no allowance in the rule book for not excluding somebody should the race be stopped after the first turn after someone has fallen. (I have discussed this with 2 heads of the SCB in the past & present & they were both adamant). I am not suggesting the rule book is right, but the rule book is there for a reason & Posselwhite didn't make a decision when he should have. There are many arguments here, but if you apply the letter of the law to it's fullest degree then Tony should have been excluded as he was the reason the race had to be stopped. I don't feel you could exclude Andersen as he was in front, therefore he could pick his line & Gollob was "just in the way." It would have been a harsh decision, but in the letter of the "law" - the right one.

 

As for the Pedersen/Hancock incident. How anyone can defend either the rider (Pedersen) or Posselwhite's decision is beyond me. Pedersen came from nowhere & rode straight into Hancock. Pedersen was certainly culpable for the crash & Posselwhite for not being able to make the right decision. His "all four back" decision was one of the worst I have seen & was made even more so by the fact that he was able to watch it from every possible angle before making the decision. I suspect that there could have been two things that influenced his decision. 1) Ole Olsen, who will do anything for a Dane to win (he has far too much power) & 2) the decision he made over the crash with Tony. Having not excluded anyone there, he may have felt he had to make the same decision in the second one.

 

Comments concerning the re-run & suggesting Hancock "fenced" Pedersen? You must have been using the same glasses as the referee, who incidentally I have worked with more than a few times in the past & I have to say that he is one of the worst there is, so his inept performance came as no shock to me.

Edited May 16, 2004 by Dave the Mic

[Bill leahy 0]

as we were at football, glad I taped this Gp, watch it in an hour, glad to see the ref are as bad as football, they have there opinion you have yours, it will never change, but it makes good TV, and the Nicki vs. Greg thing will also add to the gate next week, now me and my friends are defiantly going, No Brakes no Fear, they say ......so why complain when you fall or are knocked off.....rather them than me....still don't understand how they get paid less than footballers........have fun .......Bill

[Leg Trailer 5]

It's the frequency with which Pedersen is involved in such incidents that has angered so many. I'm sure we'd all forgive and forget a one-off incident. Pedersen does this sort of thing all the time. I vehemently disagree with the argument that he puts bums on seats and makes things more exciting. It's only a matter of time before Pedersen causes someone a serious injury or worse.

 

Precisely what I've been getting slagged off on this board for since the day I registered! Granted, it's taken people time to agree with me but finally you lot are waking up and realising that Pedersen is a total liability.

 

Sam Ermolenko summed it up well "he showed no respect for a fellow rider. You can move someone over but you don't have to try and KILL someone". I thought Sam maintained his composure very well considering the fact he just witnessed some lunatic attempting to kill one of his best mates.

 

Some sort of ban is in order for a rider who shows no respect on the track and who appears dangerous more often than not. The Vinnie Jones of speedway will end up doing someone a serious injury (if he hasn't already!) and should be punished like a footballer would be...... coupla red cards and a match ban, that sorta thing yanno? But what hope is there when the referee is watching another meeting all together? That guy needs a sit down with the FIM board and a thorough assessment.

 

But alas, the sense of satisfaction I got from seeing Greg Hancock sock it to Pedersen in the re-run made my bloody night! That is what I call JUSTICE! Nice one Greg, a total gent showed a total punk the way to ride a bike hard but fair. Something Pedersen has no idea about.

[Guest PorkyFenman]

The referees opinions are the only ones that count . With regard 'racing incidents' , it would appear they are allowed to decide blame and the subsequent consequences on a whim . There appear to be no definite rules regarding who should get excluded under what cirumstances , therefore , the ref makes it up as the meeting goes along . With no exact rules to follow , personal favouritism , crowd reaction and ego must sometimes be an influence , after all , they are only human . It's a case of like it or lump it .

 

 

 

I know not what i speak of .

[Dekker 239]

Two GP's down, and the ref has let us down on both occassions. It seems that where TR, in particular, is concerned the ref is going to bottle it every time.

Seems Ole olsen wont let refs exclude NP either......

[Dave the Mic 258]

Interesting comment concerning Rickardsson & the lack of exclusions for the Swede. I think the nail has been hit firmly on the head. He was fortunate last night & he was doubly fortunate in Stockholm. Surprised at Tony Steele, but as you say, he bottled it.

[Paleco 16]

My opinion is that N.Pederssen is the "dirtiest " player in field!

 

Go Jason!!!!!!!!!!!

[FlyinRyan 0]

The ref was a joke.

 

There was very little contact between NP and BB. Tough call that could have gone either way. A little like a footballer taking a dive when there's the slightest contact. Got nothing against BB but he went down easy. Totally different to JC and RH last year. JC ran straight through RH leg with his back wheel. NP brushed BB leg with just the dirt deflector it looked to me.

 

TR should have been excluded, although that would be tough on him. It wasn't the fault of HA or TG that he got caught on the fence. Half way down the back straight means somebody ahs to go. The race was stopped because TR fell. That means he has to go.

 

Should have excluded NP for knocking GH off. I refuse to subscribe to the 'hang him at dawn' mob though.

 

Two GP's down, and the ref has let us down on both occassions. It seems that where TR, in particular, is concerned the ref is going to bottle it every time.

I agree with you 100% My thoughts entirely.

[Trevor 270]

I have always thought that our top British Refs were the best in the world. I'm afraid the last two GP's have proved that wrong for me. I know that a Polish ref is due to do a GP soon, it will be interesting to see what strength of character he shows. To make the right decision, no matter what pressure you are under.

[Trees 2,814]

Surely it's quite possible that BSI have their own set of rules and can overule the referees' decisions? It sure wouldn't surprise me one bit ................... I think as fans we need this clarified ................

[Star Lady 5,400]

I think as fans we need this clarified ................

 

And there's more chance of Lynn winning the PL in 2004 than that happening Trees With each passing GP it does look more and more as if BSI/Ole Olsen have more input into refereeing decisions tho

Edited May 17, 2004 by Star Lady

[Cougar Pirate 0]

I know that a Polish ref is due to do a GP soon, it will be interesting to see what strength of character he shows. To make the right decision, no matter what pressure you are under.

I hope it`s not the next GP !! Because do you think he will exclude Tomasz in an incident !! hmmm

[Leg Trailer 5]

Graham Brodie took some beating if you ask me. Has he retired now?

 

Anyone remember David Hughes? That guy sucked big time!

 

Remember when Shane Parker got excluded by Wotsisname Bates? "Master Bates!" said Shane as he slammed down the phone! Excellent!

 

Tony Steele used top be the starting marshal at my local track when I was a kidster. Not alot of people know that........

[GoTigers 0]

1: Tony's crash

Hans goes wide but still leaves room for Tony, Gollob comes fast from behind and squeezes in between Hans and Tony leaving Tony with almost no room. I don't think any of them drove recklesly and they all followed their lines. Blame could be put on all 3 of them and if the airfence hadn't been there I don't even think Tony would have crashed. Not excluding anyone is the fairest decision even though I thought someone had to be excluded after the 1st corner.

 

2: Nicki-BB

Perhaps BB falls easily but as far as I can see Nicki did hit him and should be excluded.

 

3: Nicki-Hancock

There were plenty of room for both riders but Nicki cuts in in front of Hancock leaving him with no where to go. Besides Nicki comes from the back so he knows exactly where Greg is and still cuts him off. Nicki should have been excluded for that.