40-38

Who's available otherwise? Of the riders not theoretically signed up I mean.

You'd have to say that if we keep the same nucleus you'd need Becker to have the season of his life for us to repeat getting to a final.

Fricke and Becker going off the boil ruined any chance we had of winning on the night. Our purple patch only really happened when 1-6 were all firing at the same time, but we don't have the top end power to pull it out of the bag if they don't. I still think with the form of Bewley and Kurtz in the last few meetings it would have been close run even so.

It often works a it better than it did last night on B1/2, but it's not really an outside, as if you go too wide you end up in the fence as you come to the straight. That's why Bewley doesn't always go that well at BP, but his gating has got much better which makes a huge difference and I think his track craft has improved as well. I'd be interested to hear what BTFC Lion would suggest being the track man, because there is quite a large gap between the fence and the maximum width on B3/4 which is nigh on useless for the reasons suggested above. The banking on B1/2 hasn't seemed as effective as it did last year either.

It was completely unnecessary too, there was still plenty of time.

Belle Vue beat the two other possible title challengers convincingly over two legs, whichever way round people feel it should have been. Looking at the crowd it's hard to argue as well that the play offs aren't a star event in a season, whatever you feel about the validity of them for choosing a winner.

It was really impressive and credit must go to the track staff. It was still partly under water on Sunday so I'm told. Just look at how quick Bewley and Kurtz were, shows the track was really smooth.

No, nor do I think anyone outside will either. So what I'm driving at is this: the shape is poor, so is the racing, with some exceptions. So can we maybe move on and stop it becoming the topic of conversation, especially when a team have won the league and that's more worthy of conversation.

What do you mean truth? I know the shape is crap. I'd just like some of those on here to do something about it rather than keep moaning if it's so offensive to them.

I'd be surprised if he doesn't.

We suffered from some of the team not turning up tonight. Fricke has been poor, Becker was woeful tonight. I also think we suffered for having Kemp and not Kerr. For Belle Vue it really was Kurtz and Bewley who won it over both legs, they were imperious over both meetings and they showed what a good top two can really do to other teams. Makes the job of the rest so much easier.

Oh do bore off. That record is getting old.

I was talking about the track specifically, the riders have been dreadful but that's a separate issue.

If someone wants to pay to relay it and rebuild the stadium then go ahead. There's plenty on here who seem to be experts after all. Give David Hemsley a ring, buy the stadium, and it's all yours. I'm sure you'll all be queueing up. Maybe Manchester council will be interested?

Kurtz and Bewley have won the plays offs really, I'd say they ultimately have been the difference, same as Doyle and Sayfutdinov. That's what's winning teams meetings this year.

Both meetings there were ruined by the weather though. It's been the wettest September on record in Leicestershire.

It's not always that spaced, tonight is particularly bad.

That's the issue, it's certainly not just BP that's boring more often than not.

Would more people really come if it was cheaper? That's what you'd have to weigh up. If they don't come you'd be stuffed.

It was supposed to have stopped by now, although according to the met office its looking reasonable for the next week.

We've had about 50% of the entire months rainfall in just one week and twice the amount of what Manchester has had for an example. It's been the wettest September in Leicestershire for over 20 years. I'm not entirely sure what people think we could do realistically to make it any better?

Kerr got 7 for Lions v Ipswich and 8 for KL v Lions at BP. You could argue there's not much difference scores wise but Kerr always seems quicker if out in front and a bit more aggressive which you need in the first bend at Leicester I think.

I'd say that weakens us around BP. There's a reason he was dropped for Cook.

I'd have thought that must be the case. Presumably Fricke and Becker are delaying going, so Kurtz must be too.

Apparently Lions are at full strength.