torpointfanatic22

Updates here... http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Glasgow&thread=10420&page=1

I think the tennis starts at 2 which means I fully expect it to be over by the time tapes go up at Ashfield

To fit in Lambert more than 1 change would be required unless one of the top 4 goes. The only other way would be if Holder and Glanz went and Lambert and a 3 pointer came in. Whilst Lambert would probably get more than Holder, a 3 pointer would be unlikely to score much if anything so really it would make little difference. Glanz has put nearly a point on his starting average and if his injury is OK, I'd be pretty angry if he was replaced as he has been a bright spark at the bottom end (even if he's not been banging huge double figure scores in). Ksiezak is still finding his feet and I hope he is given time as he's been doing alright, although we all know Mr Bowden doesn't really care about that. The Plymouth fans have been blessed with having two of the top five riders in the PL and probably the most entertaining two at that. Sadly this does of course mean that the bottom end has to suffer and it really does become a case of the top end scoring big and hoping that one or two of the bottom end can muck in from time to time. As far as being successful in winning team trophies, this technique of team building has failed far more times than it has succeeded. As a Plymouth fan I want to see us win both at home and away, but as a speedway fan I want to be entertained so it does really leave Plymouth with a dilemma, personally the latter wins for me and I'd rather see Fisher and Barker every week regardless. I think Plymouth have a great shout in the 4's and the pairs as it stands but that will be it this season if anything. If there is a like for like change out there that could genuinely improve our bottom end (bottom 3 in the averages) then maybe look at it but for now I just don't see anything out there unless a re-jig of the side is made which personally I'd rather we didn't see.

Great, so yet another temporary track with a half full stadium. It may make the sponsors happy but I personally find the temp tracks woeful. The likes of Malilla, Leszno and Byd are some of the best race tracks around and now none will be on the calendar which is very disappointing.

I hope I'm wrong, as I think Ksiezak (or even you if that is you Rob) used to average over 6 in the PL and I'm hoping he can do that again. Best of luck, what's for sure is the Plymouth crowd will take him to their hearts!

James has been riding in the PL now for 5 seasons (mainly as a reserve) and has never averaged in excess of 4.70 over the course of a season. In that time his home track has pretty much always been either a big track (IOW) or a power track (Somerset), I appreciate he had spells at Stoke and Newport too. This season he started on 4.44 and has dropped to 4.30, not a huge drop in my opinion although I accept with rolling averages as they are he is probably averaging around 4.2 for this season on it's own. But with that in mind I'm staggered why anyone would think James should be doing better. He's at a new track that is totally different to a home track he's had before and he's riding in the main body when he is in truth a reserve standard rider. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying James shouldn't be in the firing line in any way, nor am I saying he shouldn't be replaced if someone genuinely better comes along. But to say he should be doing better when all the facts say he's pretty much on a par with what he's done over the last 5 seasons is harsh.

Franchetti out and Ksiezak in is confirmed in this mornings local rag. Don't think it will make that much difference but he can't do any worse.

Robert's average is 3.32. Without Gino included Plymouth's latest averages add up to 38.55 leaving 3.95 to replace him with. So Robert can replace Gino not just Holder. There is absolutely no logical reasoning behind dropping Cory in my opinion. You wont get much better than him on his average and I do feel people are being very harsh on James.

Seconded

I believe, although i might be wrong, his average means he could only replace James holder as its too high to replace one of the reserves, so I'll stick with jimmy thanks I believe your thinking of mudgway who is a new zealander not an Aussie, I'm guessing the Aussie in question Ksiezak and he didn't guest for us last season as he was injured.

Indeed it was Redcar. He's not gone too badly at the SBA in the past and he did have a full season in the PL last term. Not sure he'd be that much better than Franchetti but then Gino's GS is only 3.07 this season anyway so worth a punt imo. Won't happen but I'd give it a go.

Indeed, the feedback from the texter on the updates to me last night said similar. The two dilemma's are will Bowden get rid of him given the various connections he has down at the SBA and also who would replace him? Looking at the greensheets we probably have around 3.7 to replace him with, so who would be out there? Ksiezak may fit, Hughes probably would fit, Branford, recall Cockle (who shouldn't have been dropped in the first place), or take a punt on an NL rider. Webster, Starke, Blackbird? Sadly I don't see many options that would be much of an improvement.

In fairness Newman is no NL rider and is in fact a very good reserve at PL level but I see what your saying. That said I do feel your being slightly on the harsh side especially where Holder is concerned Holder's scores so far this season... Home v Rye - 5+2(4) Home v Somerset - 4(4) Home v Leicester - 5+2(4) Home v Somerset - 2(4) Away v Rye - 3(5) Away v Somerset - 5(4) Away v Ipswich - 0(4) Whilst Gino has... Home v Rye - 5+1(4) Home v Somerset - 2+1(4) Home v Leicester - 6(4) Home v Somerset - 6+1(4) Away v Rye - 1(4) Away v Somerset - 2(3) Away v Ipswich - 0(3) Neither rider has pulled up trees but in Holder's case bar last week against Somerset he has done OK at the SBA bearing in mind the track is new to him and he's riding in the main body when he should be at reserve. His away form bar last night is respectable given that he is again riding in a position he shouldn't be at. Gino has managed just two more points than Jimmy at home (if we include bonus points) yet he has had easier riders at reserve and has been at Plymouth for pretty much a full year now. His away form is woeful and has been since he signed for us. First question is are there better riders out there on the same averages who would do better? Branford for me isn't! We have little to play with on top of the team already assembled, perhaps 0.2-0.3 so little room for movement on the team. We'd have 8ish available to replace both, or it's like for like and at this stage I don't see much better out there. That aside I'd be hugely and I mean hugely shocked if Bowden binned Gino for all sorts of reasons, IF anyone goes sadly I think it will be Holder which would in my opinion by the wrong move.

Just as a point of reference there is a new 'unofficial' site for Plymouth Speedway up and running here... http://www.plymouth-devils.co/ I think you'll agree it's far better than the 'official' one and offers far more user friendly surfing.

It means technical fault.

Judging by the Devils forum I'd say most fans are very pleased with the change and I tend to agree. Gathercole is a good 3rd heat leader in his own right and with Barker and Fisher hopefully scoring big points at the top end he should be able to support them well. I do though feel Cory has maybe found his level as a 7 point PL rider, he had undoubtedly become stale with the Somerset/Swindon tie up and hopefully a small track will improve him as an overall rider and maybe will enable him to kick on again. I'd question whether he is actually more talented than Boxall but he is far more consistent and committed which is what our middle order needs, so that alone gives him my vote over Boxall, it's just a shame that such a talent is being wasted. Overall though we are still painfully weak at the bottom end and replacing Boxall with Gathercole wont change that fact. Arguably the strongest top 3 in the league and the weakest bottom 4. That said we have 1.57 remaining and should the bottom end not hit the ground running we have options which is certainly more positive.

I would suggest the deal was brokered and agreed over the phone on Saturday after Boxall's no show, hence it then going in the paper as an 'agreed' deal for Sunday morning. The contract would then have been signed on Sunday in Swindon.

The return match is the following night at Plymouth

It appears Gathercole is a Devil... http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.14739.8

Im pretty sure he lives in Swindon with his girlfriend, but thats close enough in my book

If that is the case I hope Mr Bowden gets the deal sorted quickly as with Ipswich on the hunt for two riders as well as the various injuries suffered to Rye, Redcar and Scunny, Gathercole may be in demand.

The point I was trying to make was that the post I quoted implied Ben is riding for Plymouth mainly as it's close to his family so that they can go and watch. The point I'm making is if the deal wasn't right financially he probably wouldn't have ridden for Plymouth regardless of it being close to his family so they can watch. I never stated Ben would ride for another PL club but had Plymouth not offered him a deal this year he may well have. On the other hand he may have gone full time EL. It's all totally irrelevant now anyway.

I'd be very surprised if that was the case, Ben wouldn't be riding for Plymouth on £40 a point just so his family could watch him would he. He's riding for Plymouth because the rules allow it and he's on good money. The fact that it's the nearest track to his family I would think is somewhat down the order of his priorities. Lanham allegedly didn't come down because he felt the travel was too far for him.

I'd say it's more to do with the excellent money he earns at PL level. He's pretty much guaranteed £1000 minimum per match.

I was at Sheffield the first time Plymouth visited and Barker was outshone by the Sheffield top 5 that night and by all accounts he wasn't that much better on our next visit. Barker is a class act but every rider has off nights and sometimes I think you have to give credit to the home riders who may not be as good all round as someone like Barker but on their own track are simply superb. Parker and Ashworth were brilliant on my visit first time around. Ben also struggled at Newport and Redcar he was up and down. That said he was pretty damn good everywhere else! True but we don't have enough points to replace Franchetti with Gathercole, we'd have to make another change to fit Cory in. We are 2.72 under the limit so that wouldn't work however Holder out and Gathercole in would fit or Franchetti out and Kurtz in would be fine also. It depends on what money they're on. With Barker and Fisher around he will need to have some cheaper riders on the books and if they are cheap they will stay probably longer than they deserve too (if they struggle). Plymouth could in my opinion still do OK this year but Mr Bowden needs to make the right changes at the right time. It's been seen in previous years that making positive changes when the averages permit is key to success. There are plenty of riders out there on the sidelines and with 2.72 remaining we have room to move in.