BWitcher

They still do.

Avoiding all the points again WK. The 300th best tennis player in the world. Do you believe its right he/she has to go through qualifying rounds when Roger Federer/Serena Williams do not?

Why am I being silly? I have presented you with your argument? Why should the 300th best tennis player in the world (not me) have to go through qualifying rounds for Wimbledon when Roger Federer does not? Do you have such an issue with that? Or is it ok, because back in the old days it was the same system? Do you have a major issue that 'wild cards' are given to British players at Wimbledon? Does it make a mockery of the event? These are your opinions, I am simply presenting them back to you. If you think they are silly... then what does that tell you?

Or other motorsports such as Formula One, Nascar. Although maybe WK has a point. Its totally unfair that I can't enter Wimbledon next year without having to go through a sequence of qualifying rounds. Why should I have to do that and Roger Federer doesn't. Its UNFAIR! Can't see anyone showing up on Centre Court when they realise what a farce it is! You haven't WK. This was your post. You claim that some riders will never get a chance to test themselves against the very best riders in the world. That is not correct.

Nail. Head. Nothing more to it. No it isn't my opinion. You want a system that will result in the sports World Championship having less of the sports top riders in it. That is a FACT. Not an opinion. You are perfectly entitled to prefer to see such a system, what people are arguing against is the ludicrous arguments you have been putting forward to back it up. Namely, it makes a mockery of the sport and that some riders will never have a chance to be World Champion. These are utter falsehoods and do you no good.

So you prefer the World Championship to have LESS of the sports best riders in it. Amazing.. when you're banging on about the sport being a mockery so often. Glad you are least finally acknowledging there IS qualifying now. So we can assume you were wrong when you stated that some riders will NEVER have the chance to be World Champion.

They have qualified. That is the qualificaiton criteria, finish in the top 8 in the toughest line-up there is. Everyone else also has an opportunity to qualify. Still waiting for you to quantify your ludicrous claim that some riders will NEVER have a chance to be World Champion.

Yes, waiting for you to speak sense. There is qualifying. Riders can enter if they choose to do so. Your claim that some riders will NEVER get the chance to be World Champion is a total falacy. For those quoting NKI.. Darcy Ward etc.. they FAILED to qualify. In fact, they didn't even get to the GP Challenge.

Nonsense. You didn't have to win 6 rounds to become World Champion. Indeed you could come as low as 11th in some rounds. 11th, 8th, 7th, 8th, 7th, 1st, would be enough to be World Champion under the old format. Your arguments against the qualifying are nonsensical. Whether someone can afford to enter qualifying is their own issue.

You are wrong again. There is qualifying every year, so to state that some riders will NEVER get the chance is wrong. You're right. You need to be better.

Its very simple.. it's not how it was in the old days!

True.. although of course, its fairer that the tactical sub rule we used to have. As you probably know I'm referring to the presentation of the sport. He's referring to the the 'winner' as being the one who scores most points in the series, not an individual GP.

Finally... Yet what you fail to realise is WK... Speedway is in the state that it is because it HASN'T moved on from the 70's.

Totally flawed WK, you are preaching a totally different argument for each one, effectively defeating yourself as you do it. The reality is.. you want things how they were back in the day, that is quite simply all there is to it.

My point is, you champion a one-off World Final because thats what sport is all about.. 'unpredictability'.... preferring that to a season long system. you ridicule a play off system as you claim it impacts upon the credibility of the sport... and the champions should be those based on a season long system. Massive contradiction.

Totally agree Oldace, I have made such points many times. Be careful you will have DropaCog on here ridiculing you for suggesting such a thing though. Technically its not a 'sport' but you can say the same thing about Wrestling. Look back at the old World of Sport days and you had a very similar audience.. the old dears in the front row etc. Its been taken to a whole new level now, purely through savvy marketing and outstanding presentation. The problem is, speedway will never have a Barry Hearn or a Vince McMahon because the current cartel would never allow it. Edited to add:- Although it must be said strides are being made at GP Level and the involvement of companies such as Monster Energy, Red Bull will only help.

I d Don't agree entirely. There are new fans around the corner.. there are thousands of them. However to attract them the product has to be made attractive and 'cool'. For far too long speedway has relied on an ever dwindling fan base and its marketing has consisted of popping along to a school fete with a bike every now and then.

Ludicrous arguments again Ian, you really are tying yourself in knots. You're telling us that a 'one-off' final is better than a season long competition because of the unpredictability and 'that's what sport is all about'... while at the same time telling us that a 'one-off' final is completely unfair, ruins the credibility of the sport and drives fans away. Which is it? You either believe one or the other. THIS is the reality. You yearn for the old days, many do, that is no crime. Had in the old days there been a play off system in the league, and a GP for the World Championship.. and now the opposite, you would be arguing for the former. Those days are gone Ian, times have changed and moved on. The only way for the sport to move forward and to gain new fans is for a complete rebranding on the marketing side. Rule changes and how titles are won have very little at all to do with it. Explain to me the qualification system in Formula One each year or Nascar? I don't see them struggling for credibility or struggling for fans. The facts are, other sports have moved on... speedway to a large degree (especially in the UK) hasn't. At league level in particular its still the same old tired presentation.

So we shall hear no more from you about the playoffs next year WK. You've made your feelings quite clear regarding the subject of the best 'over a season' being worthy winners, or the best 'on the night'.

Precisely. Lets also not forget that the 'one rider not there on merit' is the No 1 rider for Wolverhampton. Freddie Lindgren is not. He has a far bigger case for being there than Sczakiel did in 1973.

I always love posters like WK.. Here he tells us how it's the undpredictability of it that makes speedway what it is. Oh the beauty of Speedway that a rider like Jerzy Sczakiel could become World Champion when everyone knew he wasn't the best in the world.... But.. lo and behold should the team who doesn't finish top of the league win the play-offs, no longer does undpredictablity make speedway what it is... No wonder is it the beauty of speedway. All of a sudden its the biggest sporting debacle in history!

You've got to love threads like this. Constantly we hear how great the PL is, how wonderful the product is, how marvelous the variety is, how fantastic the tracks are, how amazing the racing is. All these PL clubs must be racing in front of packed out crowds and the promoters making a fortune!

The name of the website might cause distress to some, perhaps Gary should consider changing it. There is nothing that needs spelling out. This is a speedway forum. The thread is about a speedway rider. His name is Gary Havelock. The thread is titled.. Gary Havelock. Anyone who draws any conclusions from seeing a name has problems.

Why? Its a thread about Gary Havelock, so I'd suggest the title is quite valid.

No need for you to say anything else HT. Riders do not normally go straight when they are yet to exit the corner, they are drifting out. Its why riders hate it when someone turns 'left' on them. I do totally agree with you regarding the 'need' to exclude someone though.