mikebv

Having more teams in the top league than both Poland and Sweden does seem strange when people then state it's a struggle to get riders!! Surely an eight team top division would mean more riders to replace injured or underperforming team members without the need for guests and loads of DU's? Same for the second division. Why ten teams? Again eight would have released several riders to be available to replace others.. The current 19 team situation means you need to fill 133 positions.. A sixteen team two league structure would only need 112.... Even better possibly would be to run with six man teams and only need 96 riders in a sixteen team structure..? No DU's (particularly with promotion and relegation), and No Guests would mean real credibility.. Wouldn't that be good to see in (British) Speedway? You can guarantee that there will be teams who will struggle from day one due to their team strength. It will adversly effect attendances at both their track and when they go away, and this time next year they will be facing an uncertain future. Simply because they were allowed to compete in a league their infrastructure couldn't afford and had to use 'anyone who looked like he could ride a bike' to fill some of their seven places. Seems a strange plan to set teams up to fail thru a lack of riders at the start of the season and then even less being available to replace underperformers and injuries.

Interesting comment re "our partnership with the BSPA".... A collective thing now is it?

You would hope that there would have been several hypothetical teams discussed at the pre AGM and AGM to show how the system would work...

Very good at home... Not sure about away? Be good to just get a team on track though...

I think George Carswell paid for any transfers.. He is still a director I believe...(?).. Will all unravel over the next week or so I would think..

Whereas in Speedway the promoted teams will already be employing the same riders as the relegated teams they have just beat!!!😁 Bomber might end up racing against himself in the promotion play off..! (Wonder if he would be able to beat himself out of the gate)?!😁

To be fair to the Aces, crowds were significantly up on those delivered at the dog bowl. They even reduced the standing admission... However if the business plan was for 2000 adults (and I would have thought looking at the numbers that would have been ballpark) then I would suggest it was nothing but a pipe dream... That would have been approx 150% increase on the old place... Simply wasn't going to happen... Sadly the sport has lost so many punters through either incompetence of those who run it, lack of sporting integrity or simply age and mortality of its punters due to its demographic, that turning the situation around will take real marketing skill and need the talents of professionals, not the well meaning amatuers that so many tracks run with... 2000 out of a conurbation of 2.8 million all within 45 mins must be achievable for a unique sporting occasion you would think. The evidence over the past 20 years or so does though prove otherwise unfortunately.. Even the British GP can only attract circa 45000 out of 60 million which says it all...

Correct... Many of us Aces fans, although delighted to see such a facility be built, still thought "it great but its still going to be subjected to all British Speedways ludicrous crowd damaging nonsense".... People who left the sport over the past ten years or so, even if they returned to see the new stadium, quickly would realise why they left it in the first place....

But you will need to deduct 20% VAT from your 20k (all automated at BV so cannot fudge those numbers) which immediately leaves you down to 16k. And 2000 paying adults was very much a rarity, most matches at best I would say circa 1400 Finding the rent would be nigh on impossible on the numbers...

You would be doing extremely well to pay 10k for the riders I would suggest waihekeaces1... Top guys circa £3k down to circa £500 to a EDR... The five in the middle would be between £1k - £2k a night I would have thought from having previous conversations with several sponsors.. And dont forget you need to double those amounts as you have to pay the riders for an away meeting too from your home match... An truly incredible business model.... Paying Football Championship wages on much less than Vanerama Conference attendances. !

Didn't Mark Lemons wife do the marketing at Aintree including the Grand National? Maybe she could come on board with all her contacts...? Certainly majorly lacking in the way they have marketed the team and venue considering such a fantastic new facilty..

You can only presume "we will pay up in one go when we get our money back for the first nights fiasco" was the constant mantra and accepted by the Council...? Strange to allow a tenant to go a full term without any money being paid...

Still lots, of 'ifs, buts and maybes' but good to see some kind of plan.. The name changes of the League will be recognised by Football fans for example and make some kind of sense.. Clearly the issue will be to fit in the big names given their averages will be high. However better to do that than ban them completely from a legal perspective possibly..? The aim does look like longer term to get somewhere like a current PL team across the 'Premiership' with maybe one more heat leader level rider and one less second string than currently ride PL now. (With the biggest earners possibly conspicuous by their absence).. One glaring issue with regards to the sports integrity is having the same rider doubling up for both the top Championship team and the bottom Premiership team. Surely therefore you cannot have relegation and promotion (laudable aim that it is), until that is sorted as its another self inflicted 'Mickey Mouse' scenario waiting to be ridiculed come the inevitable time.. For me, not enough has come out re losing guest riders through a better fit for purpose RR facility and how the MC will ensure meetings don't become select meetings thru poor (or devious) planning of meetings on FIM nights. Two major issues which impact attendances very adversely I would say... And I still cannot see why when we end up sharing riders we still keep seven man teams... Still, Buster and Rob G look like they are starting to turn the oil tanker round slowly which is a start... Best of luck in moving the sport forwards..

Paying (allegedly) a rider £6k out of a home meetings income each week to cover the home and away meeting cannot have helped!! If the sport is to become viable, or heaven forbid, even grow, this has to stop.. If the GP rider concerned was there every week or not I can guarantee that the crowd level would have hardly been different, yet I can also guarantee that meetings were arranged on nights that were not conducive in generating good crowds just to ensure it fitted in his calender... Couldn't make it up could you? Speedway now is down to its die hard following only, who have proved over the last ten years or so that they will attend any old sh1te put in front of them as long as it involves "four bikes, four riders, four laps" etc etc.. Therefore. Time for the sport to go back to 'year zero' and start it all over again.. Desperate times call for desperate measures.. And this time learn from all those previous unbelievable mistakes and not do them again..

The amount you pay the riders isn't often down to points scored... Points money is often completely irrelevant given the differing deals riders do.. Zagar was said to be on £3k regardless of points scored... Top riders can get £2k basic before scoring any points therefore having No GP rider must reduce the cost base.. PS. Taking TWO riders out of SEVEN in the example I gave means FIVE riders per team therefore TEN in total not TWELVE like you calculated.. Did YOU not do maths at school..?😁 PPS. I didn't mention anything about how many heats a meeting should have..(?) Did YOU not do English either...?😁

I think the issue is more around how incredibly restrictive it is trying to work with so many variables around rider availability... The infrastructure of the sport should allow every team to race at the time they can maximise their income... British Speedway the way it is currently ran (using the riders they do), means working around Sweden, Denmark, Poland and the GP's so it can never hope to deliver this.. The only hope for the sport in this country is to "look after number one" and plan the logistics of the sport, ie the team strengths, the number of riders per team, and race nights, around that simple mantra..

Then they need to cut down the number of riders per team.... One of the problems in the Sport is the huge ability gap between numbers one and seven so run with less riders but of a more equal ability level... Maybe make five man teams from last years EL septets eg take Zagar and Jacobs out of BV's team from last year and you have no 'superstars' nor 'NL heat leaders' and must surely be cheaper to run...?

Once again we have a Speedway team changing its race night so a very few riders in the grand scheme of things don't have to get up early and fly to Poland on a Sunday.. Truly barmy way of running a business.. Until teams decide to run on the best night (or day) that they can deliver their best crowd then the ever slippery slope the sport is on will continue.. Quite simply, if Saturday night brings the best crowd then run then, if Sunday lunchtime brings the best crowd then run then etc etc etc.. And do it by only allowing riders who can make it every week. If an FIM meeting is taking place then either don't run that week or put a 'filler' in... The sport needs to have viable clubs to move organically forwards, the vast majority of what is left of the ever dwindling fan base are 'die hards' anyway so most will attend a meeting at any level as long as it involves 'their team', one that is represented by 'their riders' (and not guest riddled select sides)... Promoters just need to wake up and make it happen. The sport's whole planning is built 100% on a business plan where 'the tail wags the dog'.. Crackers..

Maybe also the farce of running a supposed professional sport on nights when you have six or seven guests on show is also quite a sizeable contributory factor in reducing crowds..? Wouldn't personally wait 90 mins near a tunnel to watch that... At least in the NL that hopefully won't be the case...

I like Cook, shows some passion.. Unlike many mercenaries who seem to ride under any 'flag of convenience' in several countries... Maybe has found his level, we will see, but give me 14 'Craig Cooks' every meeting and you would see some great Speedway matches...

Indirectly yes. Opening the floodgates, with hardly any control, delivered so much of what we have today... i.e. A business that 'opens' sporadically and only then, when its (mainly overseas) workforce dictate to the business owner when they will work for them... Imagine opening any 'leisure business' chasing the 'leisure pound', and expecting to be successful whilst only being able to open the odd weekend (THE key time for anyone in the leisure industry) here and there because your employees are not available as they are working elsewhere? Imagine running a business whose success is completely based on the loyalty of its patrons and only being able to tell your patrons your (ever changing) opening times as and when you can get someone to work for you..? Imagine running a business that you know needs to attract a new much younger customer base to survive, as your dwindling customer demographic is of an extreme elderly persuasion, yet you hardly open on Friday and Saturday nights, Sunday day, or even through the school hols as you cannot get staff? Incredibly that is Speedways business model... Amazed it has worked so well...!😀 Imagine going to a bank manager for a loan with that as your business plan and expecting them to throw some money your way!!😃

Spot on... The only things that should be discussed is how collectively each league can put together teams of similar strengths within the framework of a viable cost base, and work a plan so each track can race its meetings on the nights (or days) that all scheduled riders are available and it can generate its highest possible income stream... Team strengths and team member numbers to be determined by simple economics...

Cycle speedway do something similar... As you say, it would mean more credibility... Maybe though bring back the bonus point for an aggregate win and do away with the four point/three point/two point/one point situation? No Tac Subs allowed at all (or alternatively both teams can use it once each meeting regardless of score so Team Managers can play a part tactically?) with gate positions staying as per programme in both matches... Maybe instead of a £5k winner takes all for one meeting you could pool both meetings money and have a £7500 for the aggregate winners and £2500 for the losers..? Or maybe even a £10k winner takes all!! If you used a previous posts salaries. If £10k was on offer for an aggregate win a Number Five rider would earn £3500 for two matches if his team is successful and a Number One would earn £5000!! Truly performance related pay.. I am sure that would add some spice to every EL encounter!! (Bet there wouldn't be many riders when interviewed on Sky in the pits not knowing the current score like there is now!)😁

There is always an ultimate irony when it comes to Speedway rules in that they have to make so many to close the obvious loopholes created by the original rules, but that then leaves more needed to close the loopholes that have been created by the rules that should have blocked the loopholes!! (I think!)😀 On another thread the Polish team building rules have been quoted.. Seven men teams. Reserves must be Polish and under 21 years of age. At least four Poles in every team... And errr. That's it... No assessing averages, no PL/EL conversions, no protected race average v non protected race average, no he got this at second string average, got this at heat leader average and got this at reserve average, no mysterious ailments meaning riders miss meetings so their average isn't effected etc etc etc.. The Promoters do all these ridiculous calculations to try and get every team roughly equal at the start of the year but EVERY season at least one team is 30 - 40 points behind the league leaders at the finish!! (And it's always the team everyone on here highlights as 'cannon fodder' when all the teams are announced)... British Speedway..😂

That for me would be where the SCB would need to be strong.. And maybe all salaries paid from a central fund that they control? In the absence of the so obviously required independent body to administer the sport, (that all 'proper sports' have), it is time that the SCB actually started to help sort the mess out and this could be a way of doing so? Any sponsorship should of course still be allowed to top up any riders income, however if no 'superstars' exist there wouldnt be the temptation to do 'anything dodgy' to attract certain riders because there would be no real on track benefit as (hopefully) the spread from Number One to Number Five isnt as wide as currently exists from One to Seven in a seven rider structure.. Super League has proven a salary cap can work with clear consequence already used against any team trying to get round it. The success of which now brings promotion and relegation again as the gap between both leagues (once enormous) has now been closed to close to parity. The Poles lets face it are not targeting the 'second, third and fourth tier' riders anyway when they have made their new rule, as there are loads of Polish riders already at that level with more coming through. So let them have the 'superstars' and over here, no longer run a seasons worth of ever changing fixture lists full of select teams, (which inevitably encourage accusations of being 'Mickey Mouse' with a lack of integrity) to accommodate their participation.. Give the 'non superstars' the chance to earn good money over here by DU'ing and then let them ride in wherever else they can. (But their GB contract must be met 100%) 10 riders per match with possibly not much more than a 2 point difference in average from 'best to worst', all of whom have a chance to earn good money by priortising GB? Worth a punt surely?