norbold

Stenner's Rankings.doc

Or if it had been held at Ipswich, Savalas Clouting could have been World Champion.

Well, the comments on the photo seem to suggest it is Geoff Woodger.

Who started that one then? Seems very silly to me....

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/87529-10-favourite-new-zealand-riders/&tab=comments#comment-3246706 Ok, not quite the same as "favourite" rather than "great".

Or possibly Jimmy Gooch, Leo McAuliffe, Eric Williams, Derek Timms and Reg Luckhurst.

Can I ask you stay away from Ipswich please?

Ron How definitely. Also Dave Younghusband, Reidar Eide, Jim Airey and Gote Nordin

Tom Farndon. I understand there are still a few people who don't consider him the greatest ever!

Shame I spelt topic and the wrong. I might have to start a new one now, so I can get it right.

Have I made it?

Yes, won by Michael Lee. And it was freezing cold!

Yes, Alan Sage made his debut with First Division West Ham in 1971 and then moved on to Ipswich. He rode four consecutive seasons without missing one single match. He then moved to Second Division Crayford and carried on the record through 1975 - 1978 completing an incredible 327 consecutive appearances in official fixtures before breaking his leg in July 1979. Even then, when he returned to the saddle mid-season in 1980, he never missed another match for Crayford; and was ever-present again for Arena Essex in ’84 and ’85 and then for Canterbury in his final season of ’86. So, in 16 seasons from 1971 to 1986 Alan was ever-present in 14 of them. An incredible record!

Alan Sage rode for West Ham when they were in the First Division not the Second Division.

Tom Farndon! I'd go for 10-5-10!

I've never come across that - that's not to say it didn't happen, but I have no knowledge of it.

And we must never forget Stan Stevens.

My understanding of what happened to Knutson was partly as you say, also that his form suffered in 1966 because he was getting too involved in his business interests and unable to concentrate as he would have liked on speedway so he decided he couldn't continue with both and it was speedway that had to give.

Yes, I find this speculation on who would have won under Grand Prix v. one-offs endlessly fascinating - especially as we can never know the answer. It has always been my opinion, for example, that in the era of the Big Five, taken over a season of Grand Prix, Ove Fundin would have won more titles than the five he actually did win. He was the best and most consistent rider around for something like eight years at least and would have definitely been in the running for a further four . Maybe Briggo might have stopped him once or twice, but I think we could add at least another two to Fundin's tally of wins and I don't think three would be out of the question. So possibly seven or eight titles.

I'm sorry, Sidney, but iris is right. It's such a shame because most times on these Years Gone By posts you usually have some interesting things to say, but really, you don't do yourself any favours when you get into these sort of personal rants about people just because you happen to disagree with them.

Yes, I certainly agree about Knutson. Being a West Ham supporter, I had the great fortune of seeing Knutson and Harrfeldt week in and week out. I would definitely agree that Knutson would certainly have given Mauger a run for his money. He was class personified. They always say it was his nerves that got the better of him on the big occasion and that was why he didn't win more world titles. Not sure how true that is, but I expect that after winning once and proved himself he would have gone on to dominate the sport in the late 60s and maybe into the 70s. Harrfeldt, I'm not so sure about. Yes, he was a great rider, as his 2nd place in 1966 showed, and he may have gone on to win a world title, but I don't think he was quite in the Fundin, Briggs, Knutson, Mauger class.

Why do you think he was "approaching his peak"? What evidence is there for that? Remember he first won the World title in 1955. He was roughly the same age as Fundin and Briggs; Knutson was younger. I would say that all of them, Craven included, were AT their peak in the early-mid 60s. In addition, I know it's not a fact and just my opinion, but as someone who was around at the time, I would say Craven was fourth best of those four. A view supported by the Speedway Star, who placed him 4th behind Fundin, Knutson, Briggs (in that order) in their 1963 end of year rankings list. Personally, as I said, my view is that he would not have won another World title. Of course, we will never know and who knows what part luck might have played in subsequent finals?

There are lots of riders who could have won more world titles if luck had been on their side, but that's part of the game old chap. You can't just decide someone really won three world titles because they might have been a bit unlucky twice. I also cannot agree that Craven was approaching his peak when he died. He had been at his peak for a while. Yes, he may have won more titles, but there is no real reason to assume he would have. Fundin, Briggs and Knutson were also at their peak and then along came Mauger. My personal opinion is that PC the first wouldn't have won any more titles.

That's good news. So I didn't miss out on this great delicacy then.

I only ever went once, 1965, as it was the match away to Cradley Heath that won West Ham the league that year. Sadly, I didn't try the pork and stuffing sandwiches.....