norbold

Tom Farndon....or doesn't it count if they died before the World Championship was introduced?

I would certainly go along with Vic Duggan as the greatest rider not to win the World Championship. Others would be Jack Parker, Graham Warren, Split Waterman, Aub Lawson, Brian Crutcher, Gote Nordin, Igor Plechanov, Dave Jessup and Leigh Adams.

I bought a copy of Speedway World at the first meeting I ever went to. Its front page headline was "Brian Crutcher Retires", so I never got to see him ride! I think though there is no doubt he should be in a top 30 British riders of all-time. As you say yourself, Sidney, for a while he was the equal of the likes of Fundin, Briggs and Moore and he was a well-known name in an era when speedway received a bit more publicity in the papers than it does now. On the other hand I saw Ron How many times and thought he was always a bit underrated because he was second to Ronnie Moore but he was an essential part of the all-conquering Wimbledon team of the late 50s and early 60s. He was a world finalist eight times and between 1958 and 1964 averaged over nine points per match every season. Between 1958 and 1965 he was ranked in the Top 20 riders in the world in the Speedway Star ranking lists, generally around mid way. Without listing the other top British riders, I think I would have him in my top 30.

Yes, I must admit I overlooked Jack Biggs! I probably would put him in instead of Norman Hunter.

All time Hackney team under CHR's original stipulation of all-time career: Heat Leaders: Vic Duggan, Mark Loram , Cordy Milne Second Strings: Bengt Jansson, Malcolm Simmons, Zenon Plech Reserves: Chris Louis, Norman Hunter

Wot! No Savalas Clouting?

Just heard some very sad news that prolific speedway journalist and historian and my old friend, John Chaplin, has died. R.I.P., John.

That's funny, he lived near me too, in Clacton. I met him a few times, but never thought to ask him his real name!

I always found Norman a good name for a Speedway Rider. It's an especially good one to name your children after!

....or Knutson

Yes, maybe, and it was the question I raised about Split Waterman at New Cross. But as CHR originated the thread and it's his idea that it's "all-time" not just club, I would have thought that we should abide by his wishes and his rules.

Apparently not, according to the originator of the thread. See above.

Thanks CHR. If it's over their whole career, then: Heat Leaders: Tom Farndon, Barry Briggs, Jack Milne Second Strings: Split Waterman, Lionel Van Praag, Ron Johnson Reserves: Cyril Roger, Eric Williams

I think CHR meant the eight greatest of all time and then grade them as if they were in one team together. The point you make about Banger is what I meant and I agree. Malcolm Simmons started out as a reserve but worked his way up to heat leader with West Ham, but his best days came after he left the Hammers, so he is another in the Split/Banger category. Lofqvist was always a heat leader.

The problem I have with this is, do you mean when they were actually riding for the club, or over their whole career? My best example of this would be Split Waterman. If it was over his whole career he would certainly make my New Cross team, but if we are just talking about the period he was actually at New Cross, probably not.

Yes.

Technically, he was the best rider I ever saw. He could do anything on a bike! I think the only thing he lacked that prevented him from winning more World titles was that ruthless killer instinct as typified by riders like Fundin, Briggs, Mauger and Rickardsson. He was too much of a gentleman! And he always put his team first before his own individual ambitions. Although, as I said, he was the "enemy", being the star of our closest rivals, I really came to admire him over the years.

Yes, sadly, he was very good at New Cross. Wimbledon being our local rivals and all! But then he was good everywhere!

Stop it - it's bringing tears to my eyes! I saw my first speedway meeting at New Cross on 11 May 1960. Ove Fundin scored an 18 point maximum and Aub Lawson 16 paid 17 for Norwich but New Cross won and Jimmy Gooch was our hero as he managed to beat Lawson in one race. After that first meeting I was a regular there till it finally closed in 1963. The days of Split Waterman, Barry Briggs, Eric Williams, Jimmy Gooch, Leo McAuliffe, Reg Luckhurst, Doug Davies, Tommy Sweetman, Jimmy Squibb, Reg Reeves, Bob Dugard, Stan Stevens.....oh dear, I've got myself going now... Although Briggo was, of course, top man in 1960, he didn't cope with it as well as some others, Sidney, and I think, from memory, it was his worst year for many years averagewise. The real master of New Cross was Ove Fundin, who was almost unbeatable at the Frying Pan except for the memorable night when Split Waterman beat him three times. Another rider who was a real master of the track was Jack Young. And, iris, I think the name the Frying Pan was coined for the track rather than any pre-existing feature.

There were 93,000 at the 1938 Wembley World Final.

To paraphrase = he may have been a grasstracker, but he was most certainly a local scramble star when John Berry asked him if he would like to ride for Ipswich.

But that isn't the question, which is, " I wonder which today are the stadiums which have the biggest capacity..." There is nothing about comparison with Years Gone By.

It's an interesting question, but is it really a subject for "Years Gone By"?

Silly me. Of course FIFA takes world precedence over the United Nations.

Well now, look at this way...can England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland join the United Nations in their own right?