norbold

Exceptional characters off the track - Lionel Van Praag and Split Waterman spring to mind!

It's absolutely true, E I. No complaint from me! Barry Briggs was another. When I wrote my booklet, "Two Wimbledon Legends", about Ronnie Moore and Barry Briggs for Wimbledon, I asked some former riders their views on Moore and Briggo. Alf Hagon said, "I was Ronnie Moore's partner. He was the best rider I ever partnered...He could ride full throttle, half throttle, change directions, tootle round slowly, ride the inside line, ride the outside line. He would even shout instructions at me as we were going round. Barry, on the other hand, had to go flat out. It was the only way he could ride. He wasn't exactly out of control, but he wasn't always in control either. If he came up on the inside of you and got some grip he was liable to bash into you." Bob Andrews said: "When I first rode with him [Ronnie Moore] he knew I could gate. He said, 'Get to the first bend first, and leave a gap of about a foot from the line, if I need to I will come through.' We got a 5-1. I then had a season riding with Barry - oh my God! I would gate, then leave a foot of room in case he wanted to come through. Usually, by the next bend, he would not just come through, but he would 'hang' me on the fence. Briggo was a selfish rider."

That's not the fault of the riders who were the best though and I think they should be recognised as the greats of their era. When racing started in 1928 in Britain, Huxley, Arthur, Johnson and a few others proved they were amongst the best and proved it against the Brits and Americans - really, even in the 30s that was the limit of the Internationalism of speedway plus the odd rider from other countries, but no real world wide opposition.

There is enough evidence from Australia to show who were the top riders in Australia pre-1928, riders like Frank Arthur, Vic Huxley, Charlie Datson, Ron Johnson, Ben Unwin and Hilary Buchanan for example plus the American Sprouts Elder. Of those the outstanding riders were Frank Arthur and Vic Huxley. Vic Huxley, of course, continued into the 1930s and is a strong contender for any Top 20 of the 1920s and 30s. Frank Arthur's best days were probably in the period up to 1929 and missed out on the 30s, so normally doesn't get a look in in these sort of lists, but I would say he was probably no.1 in the 1920s itself.

Great piece of work BL. It's interesting to compare your Top 10s for the early years with the Stenner Rankings for those years. 1949: Jack Parker, Aub Lawson, Tommy Price, Vic Duggan, Wilbur Lamoreaux, Graham Warren, Jack Biggs, Norman Parker, Bill Gilbert, Dent Oliver 1950: Graham Warren, Jack Parker, Aub Lawson, Tommy Price, Ken Le Breton, Fred Williams, Cyril Roger, Norman Parker, Cyril Brine, Eric French 1951: Jack Young, Split Waterman, Aub Lawson, Ronnie Moore, Olle Nygren, Fred Williams, Jack Parker, Eddie Rigg, Alan Hunt, Jack Biggs 1952: Jack Young, Split Waterman, Ronnie Moore, Fred Williams, Aub Lawson, Bert Roger, Alan Hunt, Eddie Rigg, Dick Bradley, Cyril Brine 1953: Jack Young, Ronnie Moore, Split Waterman, Fred Williams, Olle Nygren, Aub Lawson, Geoff Mardon, Arthur Forrest, Alan Hunt, Basse Hveem

I agree with that. It would have been a big surprise if Persson had won and he would probably be ranked quite low in the all-time list of World Champions, but I don't think it would have been seen as anything like as big a shock as Jerzy S winning it. Persson was a good rider and could beat the best on his day.

It wasn't meant as a "criticism" as such, just my take on your list. I don't think any of us would agree on the Top 20. It is a subjective thing and everyone will have their own opinion. The problem of riders who only rode for one or two years in any period is always a problem in lists like this. When Tony Mac asked me to compile a list of the top 20 British riders of the 60s for Classic Speedway, I had a real problem knowing where to place Peter Craven. In the end I placed him third behind Nigel Boocock and Ken McKinlay on the grounds that they were top riders throughout the whole decade. But if anyone argued that Craven should be top I would fully understand their point. Similarly with Lamoreaux and Warren in your list. Just my opinion that the whole decade/period should be taken into account.

Your 1949-68 list seems a bit biased towards the earlier part of the period I would say, gustix, though strangely, Ivan Mauger gets in at no. 2. I think I would definitely include Nigel Boocock and Ken McKinlay in that list, possibly Sverre Harrfeldt. I would be a bit unsure about including Wilbur Lamoreaux and Graham Warren, good as they were, they only had a very limited time at the top. Dick Bradley would probably be the other one I'd leave out for Harrfeldt. Also I think I'd put in Ron How rather than Alan Hunt. Oh yes, and I agree Plechanov rather than Mardon. Oh yes, and how could anyone leave Jack Young out!?

OK, let's go back a bit...my top 5s (not in order!): 1920s/30s: Vic Huxley, Tom Farndon, Bluey Wilkinson, Jack Milne, Eric Langton 1940s: Vic Duggan, Jack Parker, Ron Johnson, Tommy Price, Aub Lawson 1950s: Ronnie Moore, Jack Young, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Peter Craven

Maybe, yes, I was going from memory.

I think Jim Kempster, Roger Frogley and Jack Parker were the first to challenge the dominance of the Australian riders. Harry Whitfield was good, but not really that good! I'd go for Frank Charles for the last place. In fact probably above Joe Abbott. There's also Colin Watson, Jack Ormston, Tiger Stevenson and Arthur Atkinson to consider. I've already covered this. #49 above.

I have Tom's leagueaverages: 1929: 7.52 1930: 8.30 1931: 6.80 1932: 8.08 1933: 9.56 1934: 10.06 1935: 9.74

OK, if you two would care to move here, we can leave the other topics free for those of us who are interested in their subject matter.

This was such a good thread once.....

As an old time representative I'd have Vic Huxley rather than Sprouts Elder. And then Vic Duggan instead of Freddie Williams, who would move to reserve along with Split Waterman.

1937: George Newton 1949: Wilbur Lamoreaux

Yes, Wilkinson scored a maximum in the final, but lost out as bonus points were carried through from the previous round. According to John Chaplin it was even more controversial than that. He says that Eric Langton told him that he had an agreement with Van Praag that whoever reached the first bend first would be allowed to go on and win and the other wouldn't overtake. As you say, Van Praag broke this agreement by passing Langton. I'm not sure I believe this. Why would you make an agreement like that? I think it's a bit of sour grapes from Langton myself. Though John believes it to be true. Anyway, good story and adds to that controversial first World Final.

It's not quite fair on Farndon to compare him to Lee or Jansson or Ward and say we can all say what might have been. Farndon actually was not might have been. At the time of his death he had already won the Star Riders' championship (and was favourite for the 1935 title because of his form that year), he was unbeatable in the British Match Race Championship and had beaten all-comers for two years and he held the track record at every track in the National League. He had proved his greatness in his all too short career.

The Whitsun meeting, held on 13 May, was won by Hackney’s Phil Hart but the biggest cheer of the night came when former Glaziers’ captain, Ron Johnson, took to the track. Unfortunately he was leading the final when he suffered a puncture and had to withdraw. This race, in which the second and third riders were Archie Windmill and Fred Tuck, was the last ever to be held at Crystal Palace as speedway did not resume there after the War though not for the want of trying as in 1948 and again in 1950 Croydon Speedways Ltd tried to get permission to stage speedway at the old track but each time local residents protested to the council about noise levels and the council refused permission. The old track has long since disappeared and the site of the old wooden stands is now covered by the Crystal Palace National Sports Centre Athletics Track grandstand.

I'm not really sure how you can say that and miss out Ove Fundin!

Very sorry to hear that. He was a really nice man as well as a good rider.

Stan Stevens would be my unsung hero.

I've got to know Ove very well over the last 10 years or so and count him now as a good friend. I last met him at the Norwich dinner a few weeks ago. He still looks amazingly fit and is such a gentleman. Nothing like his on-track antics!!! To my mind, he is still the greatest rider I have ever seen.

You could get a second team out of Belle Vue better than many other first teams!

Belle Vue: Eric Langton, Jack Parker, Peter Craven, Ove Fundin, Ivan Mauger, Peter Collins, Jason Crump