norbold

Thank you, Tigerblade.

Not sure what you mean "unlike Moore". Ronnie Moore is generally reckoned to be the greatest team rider of all time, while Briggo has the complete opposite reputation! Edit: Just reread. Sorry, thst's what you're getting at isn't it!? Doh!

Good thinking Rob. I agree that Mauger/Moore would be a better pairing than Mauger/Briggs and could hold the key to the meeting. If Moore can gate in front of the Danish and Swedish pairings he would be very hard to pass allowing Mauger to shoot off and win. There should be some great speedway when those three pairs meet! Throw in Duggan/Young or Wilkinson/Duggan plus Farndon/Craven I'd even pay to go and watch!

It seems not about that period, but there is debate on other periods, particularly the more recent eras. Greg or Tai; Jason or Nicki.

Just sent off a speedway photo for them. I never got to see speedway at Walthamstow - before my time! However, I did get to know the outside of the stadium quite well as our school sports ground was nearby and in the winter we set off from there to go cross country running. The course took us round the outside of the stadium!

Yes, exactly, that was the point I was making. It wasn't mean to be a yearly comparison. Of course that would come out differently. It was to look at the era as a whole.

I started this thread to generate a bit of interest in some of the great names of the past and to get people's views on who they thought the greatest were. I didn't start it so that two people could just behave like kids in the playground and hurl ridiculously childish insults at each other. Start up your own thread if you want to do that and leave this one to the grown ups. Thank you.

Well before my time, BOBBATH!

That's the one, Alan. Thanks.

Just thinking about all this again, wasn't there one year when an angler actually got most votes as the result of a campaign by the Angling Times and the BBC said this was against the rules and discounted his votes?

I don't know. But 1st, 2nd and 3rd in 1972 were: Mary Peters, Gordon Banks and Richard Meade.

Barry Briggs is the only speedway rider to have been in the first three. Ivan Mauger never made it.

And driving through red lights. Don't forget that one.

That's the one. Thanks, Pugwash. And it just goes to show how unreliable personal memories can be as Nigel didn't take part in that discussion after all. It must have been a similar discussion on the Speedway History site. But it was interesting to see that a certain former speedway magazine editor used five different pseudonyms during the course of the debate so he could argue with himself. Dear oh dear.

Nigel used to be quite active on here under his "handle" which I can't remember at the moment. He took a very active part in particular along with Ross and me in arguing with BFD and the six or seven manifestations of a certain former speedway magazine editor over Johnnie Hoskins' claim to have invented speedway. He was also on Jim Blanchard's history of speedway website and came up with a lot of really interesting information. He used to spend many hours in the Newspaper Library digging out obscure information. He may still do for all I know!

Actually it hadn't really occurred to me before that the only British rider I had in my list was Tom Farndon.

Well, yes, that would certainly seem to rule out Pathe News as being the reason for the large attendance at High Beech. I wonder how many people actually attended the demonstration at Stamford Bridge on 18 Feb and were so enthused that they decided to go and watch a whole meeting the following day.

Thanks everyone for your comments. And, yes, of course, you are right about Bluey Wilkinson, Rob, Also I agree with your point about the year for the changeover from Rickardsson to Crump. It should be a year earlier. And, indeed, Michael Lee does have a strong claim to 1979-80. I was in two minds over the recent past. It maybe that looking back on this in another ten years if Tai continues the way he is going we will write Hancock out of the Dominant Rider History Books and be able to give a ten year dominance to Woffy to match the other greats like Fundin, Mauger, Nielsen and Rickardsson. It probably is too near in time to be certain.

Sorry this is going to be a bit long, but it's taken from an article I wrote for the Speedway Star a few years ago and shows McKay and Galloway's part in the first meeting at High Beech. Before submitting it I had both Ross Garrigan and Nigel Bird, in my opinion two of speedway's finest historians, go through it and make comments. They agreed with my final draft. So here goes! In 1927, Captain Olliver and Captain Geoffrey Malins, who were undertaking a round the world motorcycle trip sponsored by motor cycle manufacturers, C.F. Temple Motors, visited A J Hunting's new Davies Park track in Brisbane. After seeing these top riders in first class surroundings Olliver cabled his brother-in-law, Jimmy Baxter, who was the managing director of Temple Motors, saying that speedway was making big money in Australia and he felt sure it might do the same in Britain if organised properly. Baxter then got in touch with the Australian promoter Keith McKay. McKay had tried his hand at racing but had not been very successful. Instead he had turned to promoting Jack Hill-Bailey was a good friend of Jimmy Baxter’s and was therefore aware that Baxter was interested in introducing speedway to this country. Consequently, he reached an agreement with him for the meeting at High Beech, originally due to take place on 9 November 1927, to be jointly organised by his own Ilford Club and Baxter’s Metropolis Club. The ACU turned down the proposal on the grounds that 9 November was a Sunday. However, they added that if a new application was made asking permission for a closed meeting, that is one restricted to club members only, they would grant it. Consequently Hill-Bailey reapplied for permission to run a closed meeting on what has probably become the most famous date in British speedway history, 19 February 1928. In the meantime, Baxter’s Australian contact, Keith McKay, had set sail for England on the SS Oronsay on 10 December 1927 to join up with him as promoter and director of a new company dedicated to promoting speedway, Dirt Track Speedways Ltd. While on board the Oronsay, McKay met up with another speedway rider, Billy Galloway, who was working his passage as the ship’s barber. It is not known for certain whether Galloway knew about plans for the introduction of speedway in Britain or whether his involvement just came about by a chance meeting with McKay on board the Oronsay Whatever the reason for his being on board the Oronsay, Galloway joined McKay and they both went to see Baxter on their arrival. Although no longer involved as joint promoter, Baxter was still taking a prominent role in the organisation of the High Beech meeting and as a precursor to it, he arranged for McKay and Galloway to give a demonstration of the art of real speedway at Stamford Bridge, the home of Chelsea Football Club, early in 1928. This demonstration was filmed by Pathe News and must certainly have been the first time proper speedway was seen in this country. It is probable that this film, being a Pathe News feature, would have been shown in cinemas around the country and certainly in London, thus giving a massive publicity boost to the High Beech meeting and could explain why so many people turned up on that cold February day in 1928 to witness what is now generally accepted as the first speedway meeting in Great Britain. Hill-Bailey had planned for around 2000 spectators but in fact over 20,000 attended. Two of the riders at this meeting were, of course, the Australian pair, McKay and Galloway, and one of the officials was Jimmy Baxter. After these pioneering events, the Australians began to arrive. Hunting had already arranged for most of his top stars to come to Britain and on 10 April 1928, the SS Oronsay left its final port of call in Australia when it set sail from Freemantle with riders of the calibre of Vic Huxley, Frank Arthur, Frank Pearce, Charlie Spinks and Dick Smythe on board. Also on board was the other well-known promoter, Johnnie Hoskins, with his riders, Ron Johnson, Charlie Datson and Sig Schlam.

I don't know about that particular photo but there are certainly photos of both of them at High Beech.

Galloway and McKay certainly came over before the main group. They rode at the first High Beech meeting. The others didn't arrive till some time later. Ross Garrigan said that there is no record of McKay riding in Australia before coming to England. I'm not able to get hold of my references at the moment but I'll try and post a bit more about Galloway and McKay later.

As I know we all love lists, here's one I made earlier.... I thought I would make a list of the dominant rider of their time. Of course, it doesn't mean they won everything going during the period in question but they were the rider to beat. I'm sure no-one will actually agree with the list as it stands, so any comments are welcome. - 1928: Frank Arthur 29-32: Vic Huxley 33-35: Tom Farndon 36-39: Bluey Wilkinson 46-50: Vic Duggan 51-53: Jack Young 54-55: Ronnie Moore 56-63: Ove Fundin 64-67: Barry Briggs 68-79: Ivan Mauger 80-82: Bruce Penhall 83-95: Hans Nielsen 96-2006: Tony Rickardsson 07-12: Jason Crump 13- : Greg Hancock

I didn't know the McKay/Galloway 1927 film was debunked. When was that? P.S. Don't get me started on Brian Belton's Hammerin' Round!

The problem as always, Split, is who do you leave out to make way for them? Olle Nygren is certainly a good call. I would definitely put Peter Moore in a 1950s Top 20, but not sure he was good enough for long enough into the 60s to warrant inclusion in a 60s list. The same applies to Rune Sormander. But then that's what these lists are all about. Everyone will have their own opinion.

Brian Crutcher's memory of the event reminds of the time I spoke to Wally Green when I was researching for my book, "Speedway in the South East". I asked him about his winning the Division Three Match Race championship against Bert Roger. He told me he had never been Match Race Champion. He was quite adamant on the point. Yet the record books show quite clearly that he beat Bert Roger 2-1 and 2-0 to take the title and Stenner's Annual has a little write up on the two legs. Oral history and people's own memories are notoriously unreliable.......