norbold

Happy Chistmas to you and your family too, sydney. I always enjoy our historical chats on here.

Before I ever went to speedway I used to follow it in the newspapers and in various boys' magazines and annuals etc. When I was out playing on my bike with my friends I would always pretend to be one of my heroes from my reading, they were Split Waterman, Aub Lawson and Brian Crutcher. As I said above, the very first meeting I went to brought the news that Brian Crutcher had retired, so I was very miffed that I'd missed one of my heroes. As for the other two, by a very strange quirk of fate, Split Waterman and Aub Lawson met in the first race I ever saw live. So my first night at speedway was strangely dominated by my three heroes! As for Arthur Forrest, he retired at the very young age of 26.

Following on from steve's lists, I compiled my 60s list as I watched speedway throughout the 60s and saw all these riders. If I were to compile a 50s list it would have to be based on records and hearsay rather than seeing them during that decade. Were I to do that, Arthur Forrest would certainly be included, but I never actually saw him as he retired at the end of the 1959 season. Incidentally, another 1950s great I just missed was Brian Crutcher. At the very first speedway meeting I went to I bought a copy of Speedway World. The main headline was Crutcher announcing his retirement.

I know what you mean. I saw some real greats from speedway's Post-War Golden Age when I started going. Riders like Split Waterman, Jack Young, Aub Lawson and Graham Warren. The funny thing about both Split and Youngie though was that they did have a purple patch when they seemed to be right back to their world best, but, in each case, it only lasted a short time. The exception to this was Aub Lawson who seemed to be as good as ever every time I saw him.

Do you know, Rob, as soon as I posted the list, I metaphorically smote my brow, and thought, "Arne Pander!" Then I thought I'd wait to see who would be the first to mention my omission! Congratulations, it was you, Rob.

Following on from Steve's very interesting post on the top 20 riders of the 70s, 80s and 90s, I thought I'd make a contribution on the 60s for us oldies. I first went to speedway in May 1960, so was a keen supporter for the whole of the 1960s. Again,like Steve, this is really my own list of the top 20 in no particular order (apart from the no. 1 of course )and from the top of my head without looking up any records. Ove Fundin Barry Briggs Peter Craven Bjorn Knutson Ronnie Moore Ivan Mauger Igor Plechanov Gote Nordin Nigel Boocock Ken McKinlay Mike Broadbank Sverre Harrfeldt Eric Boocock Ron How Edward Jancarz Antoni Woryna Bengt Jansson Charlie Monk Martin Ashby Ray Wilson

They didn't even mention any speedway riders in their obit section.

There is some film of the 1957 final on YouTube but it's not very good and doesn't show the line up.

I decided a bit of lateral thinking was called for...... Quote from the 1958 World Final programme. "Brian Crutcher.....Reserve at Wembley 12 months ago, it's a big disappointment for Crutcher fans to see him occupying a similar position this time." Quote from the 1959 programme: "Brian Crutcher.....Made only the Reserve berths for the last two Finals and was thought not to be the man for the big occasion...."

Or Ronnie Moore being a New Zealander. He was, of course, born in Tasmania. Here's something else to add to the mystery. I have a filled in 1957 World Championship Final programme. It seems to be a meticulously filled in programme and leaves Brian Crutcher as first reserve. No mention of Westerburg. And Aage Hansen, who was in fact the only Norwegian to ride in the 1957 final.

This conversation raises a very interesting point and that is that when something is written in a book it is repeated by future writers who can't be bothered to do their own research and so becomes the truth. The 1957 final 2nd reserve is a good example. Maurice Jones, in his 1979 book, "World Speedway Final" shows Brian Crutcher as the 2nd reserve on the night. This is repeated in (ironically) Robert Bamford's own book, written with Glyn Shailes, "A History of the World Speedway Championship" (2002). With two authoritative books saying the same thing it passes into history as true. It reminds me of the whole idea that Johnnie Hoskins "invented" speedway.......

How very dare you! I hope for your sake customhouseregular doesn't read that.

Actually I did think after I'd posted my above rather long missive that I should have included Hans Nielsen along with Mauger and Rickardsson. I suppose I always tend to downplay his dominance in the Fundin/Mauger mould because of his rivalry with Erik Gundersen. But then I suppose you could say the same of Fundin/Briggs or Mauger Olsen.... Vic Duggan was dominant in the late 1940s!

I am a staunch Ove fan, Sid. The reason for that I suppose is because in my first year of speedway, 1960, he was far and away the best rider. His visits to New Cross were, for me at least, the highlights of the season. And remember, Briggo was actually a New Cross rider that year. During the season, Briggo was named as challenger for Ove's Golden Helmet title. In both races, Ove absolutely slaughtered Briggo, setting the two fastest times at New Cross, claiming the track record which stood till New Cross finally closed in 1963. He totally dominated the 1960 season and was odds on to win the World title, in spite of the challenges of the rest of the "Big Five". And, of course, he duly won. When he did win, the Speedway Star said, "Swedish speedway star, Ove Fundin, established himself as the greatest rider of all time by virtue of his brilliant victory in the Speedway Championship of the World final at Wembley Stadium.... Fundin showed the top trackmen of the world that his dynamic pace prior to the meeting had been no mere fluke." He was, of course, also ranked no.1 in the Speedway Star rankings that year and this is what Speedway Star had to say about that, "For the fourth time in five years, Ove Fundin has been rated the number one rider in the world.....There is little doubt that Fundin has firmly established himself as the greatest speedway rider of all time. His amazingly high points returns, recorded with fantastic consistency, his ability to increase speed as a race progresses, has earned him the title of 'Mr Perpetual Motion.'" And, talking of his "amazingly high points return", his average for the year was an incredible 11.56. This compares to Craven: 10.85, Moore:10.65, Knutson: 10.05 and Briggo: 9.51. In absolutely every aspect, Fundin was by far and away the dominant rider of 1960 and almost in a class of his own. I suppose it's that sort of thing that sticks with you when it's your first year watching the sport. In the years since, I would say that only Mauger and Rickardsson could be spoken of in the same breath as such a dominant force. Just two other things for me; not only was he the dominant rider of my first year and his visits to New Cross the highlight, but he scored an 18 point maximum in the first match I ever saw, so he set the scene for me right from the very beginning. The second is that over the last 10 years or so I have become very friendly with him. Apart from his riding ability he is a top class bloke!

So by that reasoning, Greg Hancock is a better rider than Tony Rickardsson.

Ove Fundin won and Briggo was 3rd. I don't understand your reasoning. By 1963 they had both qualified for every final since 1954. Fundin's record was far superior to Craven's in those finals and in 1963, Fundin won and Craven was 10th. Why, after all this time, would Craven suddenly have got Fundin's measure? He didn't show much sign of it in the 1963 final!

As you know, Sidney, I completely disagree with you, both from having seen them both myself from 1960 onwards and statistically. There is no doubt in my mind that Ove was superior to Briggo. Indeed in 1960, Briggo rode for my team, New Cross, and Ove regularly beat him round the Frying Pan on Briggo's home track. You can't say with any certainty what would have happened if the gates had been reversed for the 1967 final. I was at the 1967 final and Ove was the best rider there and deserved to win. Also, speedway is full of couldave, wouldave, shouldave, mightaves. Do you know for certain that there were no "lucky" incidents that went in Briggo's favour when he won his World titles? Also, Peter Craven did NOT regularly beat Fundin. All the record shows is that he beat Fundin more times than Briggo, Moore or Knutson did, not that he regularly beat him. In the Golden Helmet, for example, Fundin and Craven met eight times, with Fundin winning 5-3. And one of those three he lost was because he had to forfeit the 3rd leg, due to a prior commitment in Sweden. In any case, apart from not being correct in itself, it also shows that Briggo's own record against Fundin was inferior to Craven's. Not good for a rider supposedly better. We've seen published on this forum the Speedway Star ratings from 1956 to 1966, showing Fundin's record was far superior to Briggo's. I know you have a thing about Briggo, Sidney, but his being superior to Fundin is not borne out by any proper analysis of the two records, whether on paper or from memories of people around at the time.

Well the substance of the comment is still right, which is what you were endorsing.

Yes, you're quite right, iris. I made a mistake, confusing the op, with the one from Dantodan a bit further down the page. I must pay more attention to what I'm typing!

Since this thread was started over six years ago by Jack of Diamonds, his own site, Defunct Tracks, has gone from strength to strength and for those of us interested in the history of the sport is a first class resource and makes for very interesting reading. I could spend days at a time on it! I would highly recommend it to everyone with any interest in speedway history. You will find much fascinating detailed information on there together with some amazing photographs.

Another of my great memories is the 1967 World Speedway Final. I went to college in Norwich and I persuaded a number of my friends, who had never been to speedway, to come with me to the final so we could support Norwich's greatest, Ove Fundin. I wasn't expecting him to win as he was a bit past his best then and with Briggo still at the top of his game, Igor Plechanov still going strong as well and the up and coming stars like Mauger and Banger, I thought it was a bit of a forlorn hope but I didn't let on my feelings to my friends. Of course, I was proved wrong, and Ove won his fifth record-breaking World Title. My friends were very happy and a good time was had by all!

Very sorry to hear the news about Jimmy. My comment would be the same as The White Knight's. A very nice friendly man. R.I.P. old friend.

I guess so, sidney. He was ranked at no. 1 in the 1951 Stenners Annual (for 1950/51). Above Aub Lawson, Jack Parker and the World Champion, Fred Williams. He was favourite to win the 1950 World Final but ended the night in third spot with 12 points from four wins. His dropped points were in the 10th heat when, not being content with a second place, he fell whilst chasing the eventual winner, Freddie Williams, who won with 14 points. A second place would have earned him at least a run-off for the Championship. Unfortunately he then suffered a serious crash in New Zealand over the winter in which he suffered a fractured skull and he was never quite the same again. If he hadn't suffered the injury, who knows? But yes, he is definitely one to be counted in any "nearly men" discussions.

Yes, of course, there were dozens of riders I'd like to have seen. Of your list, I have seen Graham Warren, Ron Johnson and Ron Johnston. Others I would like to have seen: Roger Frogley, Frank Arthur, Max Grosskreutz, Joe Abbott, Ginger Lees, Jack and Cordy Milne, Colin Watson, Frank Charles, Lionel Van Praag......see what I mean? This could go on for ever.......

I was limiting myself to five and chose those who I think were probably the most exciting riders....though, having said that, I've just realised I missed out George Newton......