Grand Central

You are, no doubt, spot on with those recollections. Assessing each has really to be done without much reference to head-to-head match ups as their peak form came at slightly different times. Mort wasn't anything really that special at The Shay. But at Hyde Road he had an incredible ability to make up huge acres of ground on opponents, probably more than PC, in my rememberings. I saw him do it a lot in league matches but the Test Match in 1982 had a couple classics like that against top opposition. Peter Collins was just excellent at a The Shay, and really infuriatingly, my memory tells me that he always seemed to reserve some of his best getting for there as well. But yes that was probably more in the time before KC became 'Number 1'.

Well, by the late seventies family allegiences had switched to Halifax. I know that many people regard KC as being a master of Hyde Road in his time. And wearing my Dukes hat I would not put up too much resistance to that thought. There is no doubt that at the 1981 BLRC he was in blistering form; but it feel he had rode even better in the league match there just before the World Final that year. We really did think he was peaking so that he could beat Bruicy. No one can discount Peter Collins of course. But It is just really difficult to decide though as Mighty Mort, always had my vote over PC. Personally, I thought PC was probably one of the best guys ever around The Shay, actually.

Ah, I do love historical revisionism ... with a selective memory to cherry pick those that help one's argument. So I shall enter into that just as freely.. No doubt that BB had his title hopes ended by Bernie Persson in that fateful incident that left him with such a ghastly injury. But Ivan Mauger could easily claim that the same Persson character destroyed his chances in the 67 Final when he dumped Mauger on the first bend of Heat 18. And wily old Fundin was better able to deal with the pandemonium that delayed the rerun while they got Persson off the track after his protests. Similarly BB himself was mightily lucky to be allowed to keep the 57 title when many thought he had caused Fundin to fall the in the run off. Every modern day international ref would have had Briggs excluded. Then there is the Belle Vue record. In the period 1969 to 1972 - when I was watching and Ivan was an Ace - the head to head between BB and Ivan are interesting. In league matches Ivan beat BB three times in the 69 match, they were one race each in the 1970 BL fixture (with Ivan also winning the second half final over BB) and in 1971 and 1972 neither appeared in a league match against each other at Hyde Road. In the BLRCs over the same period, obviously Barry won the 69 and 70 events and Ivan 1971. In 1969 Ivan beat Barry when they met (but Barry only needed a second to win) and that was reversed in 1971 when BB beat Ivan in their last race when Ivan had the title in the bag. In 1970 Ivan was excluded for tape breaking when they were due to meet. History can be twisted any way one likes if you have a mind to do it. Or could it just be that things were not quite how you thought Sid?

Ah yes, you are quite right. 1965 to 1970. Briggo won all those 6 BLRC; and just one world title. Ivan didn't win a BLRC at all. I think that Sprouts may be comforted by the three world titles that came his way during that time.

People seem preoccupied by 'natural talent' in the DW debate. I find it rather sterile. Frankly, I have never subscribed to the view that someone like Ivan Mauger had less 'natural' talent than others. It's as if 'natural talent' is some specific separate ability. Different than the huge ability Ivan had. I don't believe that. Peter Collins being generally crap from the gate but brilliant from the back, somehow equates to natural ability. Being brilliant from the gate, is not deemed natural ability. That's just daft. Everyone's natural ability has, ultimately, benefitted in realty from practice and applying themselves to it, rather single mindedly. PC's 'natural ability' is recognised and respected because he was given the Hyde Road platform to practice it on, hone it on and display it on, week after week. Just like Ivan did by applying himself to the very sensible aspect of Speedway racing known as 'gating'. And he put in massive number of hours at Hyde Road over the years, just as PC and Mighty Mort did too. Having watched Speedway at The Zoo from my first steps. I still think that Ivan is head and shoulders above anyone around that place. He really was stunning in his day, better even than PC, Mort, and Briggo. Its just that he didn't give people a 'head start' like the others.

We 'did Cardiff' by staying in Bristol for the weekend a couple of years ago. Had a fantastic time. Staying three nights in luxury resulted in massive savings, even with the small amounts on trains. Made a very different weekend. And was good to not spend the whole time in a perpetual 'fan zone'. .

Ahh ... Dick Bracher ! A name of infamy. He was in charge of the ACU Youth Division back in the day Awful man. I remember being astonished at his 'promotion' to the SCB.

.A slightly odd point as The Horse of the Year Show has never been held at Wembley Stadium. Nor, actually, ever on turf. Hallowed or otherwise. .

I absolutely love the whole weekend of the SGP in Cardiff. But I also happen to live within about 5 miles of Wembley, in London. And know so well, what the Capital has to offer It's just a bit stupid for people who should know better to damn London just to bolster Cardiff. It does not need it. And it just makes the poster look daft. .

Agree with pretty much all of that. Just one thing that I think gets forgotten about the 'decline' showed in the last few finals, and their venues. By the mid eighties the FIM was getting dominated by voices that were great advocates of making the move to GP system. There was no real force or will to make the later World Finals live up to their history. Sorber got Norden, Vaessen the Dutch two-dayer and Ole Olsen got to run a World Final at Vojens in 1988. The greatest advocate ever of the GP, being the promoter of the first ever World Final to be held at the end of a cul-de-sac on an industrial estate. Just seven years post Wembley. It wasn't just that the World Finals declined, on their own, they did so with the assistance of those who should have been their custodians. They were diminished just as much by the 'GP movers' in control picking crap-holes to host them. The argument to change to a new system is very easy to make if you have been able to denigrate the old system as well. It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

I am sure you are not alone.

It just read that someone had been pulling your leg, having you on. Claiming that the Danes could somehow manage to squeeze them all into the arena! I thought, surely he did not believe that!

.Because she appeared in Horsens in 2006 before ground had been broken on building this wee-stadium. She appeared on a Glastonbury-like stage on the training pitches With massive grass area easily accommodating 85,000 A bit like being at Hyde Park. .

Whilst your here, Philip ... Just read your 'twit-bits' from the GP last week. Please tell me that someone didn't really let you believe that Madonna played to 80.000 at the Casa Arena, did they?

At least it should make the implementation of the findings of the 'Warsaw Enquiry' so much easier (?) The interaction between BSI, Speedsport and future local SGP promoters will now have an extra dimension of 'diminished clarity', shall we say. Which will be nice. Perhaps, in Westminster, they are to delay the results of the Chilfott Enquiry until Euan Blair gets a place in government. Which I must add, he will do, of course, solely on merit. .

The bizarre thinking of this silly man is most comical " The rules have been clarified and now it’s clear what is, and isn’t, okay. " Yes, Greg. Let us all rejoice that you have made legal history in giving clarity on this matter. Running after a man and launching a full body assault IS against the rules. Here was me thinking that it was totally permissible. Idiot.

I thought I may be alone in thinking that the Taxi ride mentioned by the OP was not that exceptional at all? Back in the seventies we knew an old boy who used to go to Halifax from one of the outlying Pennine villages who did a similar journey themselves on an almost weekly basis. There was an another old chap that I chatted to occasionally at Rye House some years ago who did likewise from somewhere quite obscure and distant just to get his weekly Speedway fix. BW may not know this, but it is quite expensive to run a car nowadays With track closures, the distance from our nearest tracks has got larger and larger over the last few years. In the end I imagine I could spend this guys taxi bill each fortnight just on Speedway travel alone, quite easily. I'm afraid that is what people do to follow Speedway. We are all a little barmy in our own way to be still spending so much money, time and effort on the damn sport. To be honest, we all deserve a medal for still caring at all. .

No it wouldn't appease everybody at all. As it would increase costs again. And that is the only reason it was removed. That is why no sane promoter would ever return to it now. With or without tinkering.

Uncle Len would not be complaining about fairness though. It would be money. I always imagined that, after the toss for gate positions ,the coin he threw into the crowd was actually attached to him with elastic so he could retrieve it.

I really do wish that the arguments here over tactical rides and old tac subs could be made with more genuine understanding of each side. The TRUTH is that mathematically the old tac sub method was more 'unfair' than the newer tactical ride. BUT that to most people it never actually 'felt' like that. The tactical ride was introduced solely for cost cutting. Never to improve fairness. It achieved that aim very well. But to many it just seems a 'bad' rule. I have no idea whether such tactical rules have EVER had a dramatic effect on attendances. But, from memory, I never remember anyone complaining in the 'olden days' about the unfairness of tac subs (TWK excepted, no doubt). But I do remember a great detail of 'tactical talk' on the terraces on when or how they would be used. They may have been very unfair but they had the double whammy of tightening matches up and giving an extra dimention to the contest. Truth is I personally do not care one jot about the unfairness. I really liked tac subs. And I equally really lament their loss. Fairness, cost cutting etc are piffle to me. BUT I do hate the double point tactical ride. And the Joker in the SWC. Its just how I feel

For clarity. The Speedway News (12-10-1957) report for the meeting on September 30 at Poole says the Battle of Britain Trophy was awarded to Ken Mckinlay for finishing second in the Thompson Memorial Meeting, by the local RAFA.

There was a Battle of Britain Individual meeting held at Poole on September 30, 1957 These were the results: Brian Crutcher 15, Ken McKinlay 14, Aub Lawson 12, Gordon McGregor 11, Brian Hanham 10, Jimmy Squibb 8, Ronnie Genz 8, Jim Lightfoot 8, Ron Mountford 8, Terry Small 7, Dick Bradley 6, Maury Mattingley 5, Bill Holden 4, Frank Bettis 2, Norman Strachan 1, Merv Hannan 1, Dick Howerd 0.

Gustix ... You, helpfully, offered the definition of a troll. Not me. I happen to agree that it is a pretty accurate summary of some of your own behaviour on this forum. Any further explanations that you require may need more specialist assistance.

. As definitions go that sounds just about spot on. Now you have successfully diagnosed your own affliction. Are you going to mend your ways? .

I feel that we are overdue an intervention by the Archbishop of Sunderland. To defend the indefensible, yet again. 'It is his right to post utter drivel. But how dare you point out his madness, John?' I am reminded of the episode of Blackadder where Edmund put his underpants on his head and pencils up his nose to simulate insanity. "Wibble!" .