GregoryM

Have exchanged messages with a pal on holiday in Gdansk. He was at Gdansk v Rybnik on Sunday and told me that Woryna scored 11+2 and Cook 1+1. For Belle Vue's sake I hope that's somewhat different at Wimborne Road tomorrow night!!

It recorded for me on my Sky+ HD Box, though it was a good job I'd checked my planner before leaving home. I'd originally set it to record sometime over the weekend, but I checked the planner again for something else at about 5:30pm. Lo and behold it wasn't shown on the scheduled list, although the following programme was (set to record just incase the speedway over ran). So I set the British Final to record again and, as I said, it did record it ok. Maybe, if people had set it to record a day or so ago, it 'disappeared' from their scheduled list, just like it had on mine?

Thank you to all, much appreciated.

This is very true and the match going ahead as it did begs so many questions. 1. Why was this date to hold a rearranged fixture (postponed on 9 April) even considered if there was a possibility of riders missing? 2. Did the FIM consult the BSPA re: riders having fixtures already booked in the UK in order to avoid them taking part in the only Monday round of GP Qualifying? 3. If so, did the BSPA respond? 4. If the BSPA were consulted and didn't provide the inormation, why? 5. Was any attempt made by Belle Vue to ask King's Lynn for a postponement when it became known Cook & Fricke were missing? 6. If so, did King's Lynn refuse? 7. If Belle Vue didn't ask King's Lynn, why? 8. Did / will the BSPA make any representation to the FIM to avoid such scenarios in the future of having riders taken away on our fixed race nights? 9. If not, can we conclude that the BSPA really don't give a t*ss about the credibility of the sport in the UK, and what supporters have to put up with? On the surface it just seems a little 'strange' that the match went ahead when it involved the BSPA chairman's team, and they were the team most likely to benefit. All of the above is down to the administration, running and credibility of our beloved sport. What happened or might have happened out on track is another thing of course. As far as the actual match itself is concerned, as someone has said, there is no guarantee that the Aces would have won with a full team (inc R/R for Stevie Worrall) anyway. Brady Kurtz scored 9+1 from 4 rides, which is probably what Cookie would have scored. Jason Garrity (and eventually IRR) for Stevie scored 5+1. Yes, you can argue Stevie would have scored more, but remember the R/R rides for him in the 50-40 win v Swindon on TV only produced 2+1 !! Josh G scored 3, 3, 0, 0 = 6 and you could argue that Max Fricke might have scored more. Had Josh / Max scored 9 then Aces won have won 46-44. All the other incidents with Drozdz's engine probs, Jye breaking the tapes and Rohan not turning his fuel on at the start of heat 5 had nothing to do with the guests and would most likely have happened anyway. So there is a strong possibility that the Stars might have won v the regular Aces team. Fair play to them that they were definitely the better all-round team on the night. So had the Stars won against the 'real' Aces team, it would have been an even more creditable and 'real' result, and the debate about the rights and wrongs wouldn't be taking place.

I asked this question within another thread, but no one has responded. Most probably that post hasn't been seen. Has the Freesports HD channel started yet? I can't see anything on the Sky+ box and I thought I read somewhere that it was going to start on 12 May, but I maybe mistaken. Would anyone have an idea or an update they've seen?

I actually couldn't agree with you more, and I did discuss this with my 'new Glasgow Tigers friend'. Since the NSS has been open I myself have taken several 'first-timers' with mixed results. One example of my own though is that rules do eventually crop up. I took one friend who loved it and immediately wanted to go again. In his first match it was a full 7 v 7, but in the second visit there were guests and, because the centre green presenter started talking about 'guests', my friend wanted to know more. It did put him off a bit, but he has continued to go - and he accepts that injuries will often mean guests. He has though read the background behind tonight's rearranged fixture and has texted me to say I won't see him there tonight.

Was in Blackpool yesterday and got chatting in a pub with a guy wearing a Glasgow Tigers T-Shirt. He was on holiday with a group of friends and I asked him if he was going to have a ride to Manchester tonight to take in the Aces v King's Lynn match. 'Don't you mean Aces Select v King's Lynn?' he laughed. He went on to say 'I'd seen there was a rearranged match at Belle Vue for this week and I discussed with my friends (not usual speedway goers) if we should go. There are 8 of us and the other 7 seemed pretty keen. But when I then saw that Cook & Fricke were missing and three guests were in place I thought forget it. How could I properly explain to the others about why one team had three riders in it from three other clubs? It would take all day and they already think speedway is a bit mickey mouse anyway from what they've heard from me over the years. So no we won't be going, but defo would have done had it been a full Aces team (even with R/R for Worrall). With getting in, progs and some drinks that's at least £200 - £225 they could have had tonight that they won't be getting now'. Wonder if I forwarded this to the BSPA they'd even be bothered reading it?

Spot on mikebv. I made a comment in a post back in August 2015 that I thought the league table was a 'mysterious work of fiction'. When asked 'why?' I wrote this below, and still some other contributors didn't seem to accept the points I was making. Thankfully the Double Points Tac Ride has now gone, but I do think many speedway fans really can't see the wood for the trees. I will admit I'll still be there tomorrow night but only because it is at the NSS. I do enjoy it but I now treat each match as an individual night of entertainment, and all thoughts of it being a bona fide league competition were dispelled in my mind a long time ago. Had we still been at the Dog Track then I definitely wouldn't be there. Report post Posted August 20, 2015 Sorry, been away for a few days – but you ask why the league table is ‘a work of mysterious fiction’. FICTION 1. GUESTS In modern day speedway our teams are, for whatever reason, increasingly NOT racing against their opponents’ declared 1-7s, with guests being employed in numerous matches week-in, week-out. Infact, whenever there is a match without any guests and / or R/R it is noted as being somewhat remarkable. Last night’s postponed match at Belle Vue, for example, was set to be the Aces 13th home Elite League match of the season. Had it gone ahead, the 13 matches would have seen the opponents arrive at Kirky Lane with 12 guests and 2 operating R/R. In another example, in the four Belle Vue / Lakeside matches this season there were 12 guests used and 2 R/Rs!! What makes the situation look even sillier with guests is that you might see a particular rider at your track guesting for an opponent, but is then absent when his own team visits. Or your own team has a rider missing at an away track, but then he appears at that track guesting for someone else. The choice of guests is, quite understandably, made on a ‘horse-for-courses’ basis wherever possible and a team may well have a guest rider in its line-up at a particular track where he performs considerably better than the rider he’s replaced. So if the ‘real’ Team A isn’t taking on the ‘real’ Team B the result can hardly be ‘real’ and so have little credibility. The result is likely to bear no resemblance when teams are full of guests to what it would have been with their own riders - so the result becomes a work of fiction of sorts. 2. DOUBLE POINTS TACTICAL RIDE RULE Yes here we are again - but if a team ‘wins’ 47-46 by virtue of using this rule then in reality out on the track they’ve actually lost 44-46. What is worse is that if their opponents are the home team, they’re considered to have ‘lost’ and get no match points at all - despite scoring a real match winning total of 46 points out on the track. Absolutely ridiculous!!!! And yet more fiction. MYSTERIOUS The mystery is how supporters continue to have the patience to put up with it? It certainly isn’t doing any favours in attracting new supporters. Over the years I’ve taken several ‘first-timers’ to speedway and, for the most part, they’ve enjoyed the spectacle. Get onto explaining the rules and answering their questions about team line-ups and they soon lose interest. I took a couple to a double header at Belle Vue last season (I think it was last season) and two riders were riding as guests for one team in the first match and then for their own team in the second – the couple were very confused to say the least and just laughed in my face when I explained things to them. ‘How on earth can you take speedway seriously’ they asked. I really didn’t have an answer. Anyhow, I’ll continue to enjoy speedway match by match and try to put out of my mind just how a team has been cobbled together for that particular night. It's not something to agree or disagree on, it's not opinion. The current guest / double points tactical ride systems make the league table a 'mysterious work of fiction'. No if's or buts about it. 　

Has the Freesports HD channel started yet? I can't see anything on the Sky+ box and I thought I read somewhere that it was going to start on 12 May, but I maybe mistaken.

Just got round to reading the thread after being away since Monday night. Well thank goodness for one Krzysztof Kasprzak. With 7 x Aces 5-1s there were just 8 heats (of course) where the Rockets actually finished ahead of a Belle Vue rider - and KK was involved in 6 of those heats. After heat 7 he was, infact, the only Rocket to finish infront of an Ace for the rest of the match. And yet it was still a match which had its fair share of decent close racing - heat 11 for instance with Fricke, Etheridge & Bomber. And, of course, it had Dan Bewley..........

Only if you ignore Bickley's retirement which actually cancelled out Jon's two efs? Both times Armstrong stopped the races were 3-3, and both times they then finished as Colts 4-2s, so the two heats finished as 8-4 rather than 6-6. Had Jon not stopped in either heat the result would have been 48-42. When Bickley stopped the Colts were holding a 4-2 with that race subsequently finishing as a Bees 4-2, so without Kyle stopping the result would have been 52-38. So, therefore, if Jon & Kyle had completed those three races the result would still have been 50-40.

I couldn't agree more, but to be fair virtually every Colts home match this season has been a great advert for the National League. The huge Colts' points totals say nothing about the quality of the racing and the sterling efforts of the opposition teams' riders. It is a shame that the first leg was curtailed at 13 heats, but the 56-34 result last night at least put one argument to bed. Given that at least three riders would have finished heats 14 and 15 at Eastbourne, the biggest win the Eagles could have achieved was 55-35, then giving a Colts 90-88 aggregate win. And then that last dash pass by Jack Smith on Josh Bailey in heat 15 last night would really have brought the house down!!

Sadly, that just about sums up the state of speedway in this country. Problem is, no matter how well Richie is going, you are not guaranteed a big score from him at the NSS. He was scoring quite well for Poole in his spell with them earlier this season, but on his appearance as a Pirate at the NSS he scored just 1.

With BT not due to broadcast tonight anyway, I suppose we could just forget about lack of dates, rider availability and neutral tracks and revert to the good old fashioned method - declare Swindon Robins as Champions based on the simple fact that they topped the League Table!! (I'm a Rochdale based Belle Vue supporter)

I think you may have found the perfect way to sum up the entire debate and that, in the end, shows that its all down to opinions and taste from the speedway goer's perspective. For those that enjoy the speedway served up at their own track (as they surely must if they keep handing over their hard earned cash every home match) then all could say : 'I'm more than happy with what's on offer at (insert track name)'.

I'd fully agree with mikebv's observations about the Wolves track and if, as you state, Wolves still is one of the best, then its a sad indication of how bad our tracks have become generally (having been a speedway goer for 45+ years I was saddened by the state of e.g. Stoke and Poole on visits this season compared to previous visits) and must put the National Speedway Stadium circuit a country mile ahead of every other track in the UK. Having visited most tracks in the over the last 3 seasons, I haven't seen any better racing than is regularly served up at the NSS. Imagine then how good it would have been had there not been the introduction of the new silencers compared to the Golden Era that you started your post with.

'two bit tournament' ? I think the speedway authorities in other countries believe that to be the SGB Premiership - or indeed any competition on our shores.

At long last........GiveusaB says something sensible!! LOL!! And I'm not a Mancunian either. Criticise on anything you like, its all about opinions after all - but do at least learn from what fellow posters are telling you, and be consistent in your arguments. You still seem to be wondering where the Colts' development is after you yourself rightly quoted as Payne's R/R rides being taken by Bewley, Smith and Bickley in the match at the NSS. So that's 2 x 18 year olds and 1 x 15 year old taking a R/R ride for a 30 something year old. And in two other home matches all four of Payne's R/R rides were taken by the No. 8 rider - another 15 year old!! Plenty of development going on there.

Bewley, Smith, Bickley, and the Woodhull twins......I think you answered your own question before you even asked it!! Perhaps you just disappear up your own ??? Nice comments from other Brummies fans, seems you're very much in a minority.

Fair too sensible an idea to have crossed a speedway promoter's mind!!

If the top tier did go to Monday & Wednesday, or Wednesday & Thursday, presumably the second tier would avoid racing on those two nights. As well as fixed nights possibly tempting some big name riders back, it should help too in avoiding fixture clashes for the double uppers (though probably should be called double downers these days).

I was watching Woryna at Gdansk on last Monday (14th August) in the IMME meeting and he was pretty good in that too. Beat Jason Doyle from the back in his semi-final to move into the final. He finished second in the final ahead of Bartosz Smarlik and Patryck Dudek. Caught and passed Smarzlik coming off the fourth turn on the last lap. Leon Madsen won the meeting.

No Belle Vue heat leaders there anyway, and with Tungate probably missing too its not much of a Belle Vue team.

So its not just Belle Vue that ignore emails then?? There are several email contacts at the NSS, but from my own experience and talking to other fans, you're extremely lucky to get a response.

Jason Doyle scored 9 points from his 5 rides in the IMME meeting at Gdansk on Monday night (14th). That put him in the semi-finals, where only the winners proceeded to the final. The top two scorers qualified directly to the final and the next 8 highest scorers contested the two semis. In his semi Jason was leading, but was passed by Kacper Woryna and so was eliminated. The final was 1st Leon Madsen, 2nd Kacper Woryna, 3rd Bartosz Smarzlik and 4th Patryck Dudek. Woryna passed Zmarzlik on the run to the line to claim second place.