Col

I am far from a regular visitor to this forum, but I'm pretty certain that anyone who posts a subject with such a subject is not worth reading, the rest of us mostly realise that the two members you posted about are also not worth reading. So don't read their posts.

Really. I spend so little time looking at this I'm not sure I am capable of winding anyone up. You think that my thinking Auty is a better rider than Howarth is a windup? I confess there is very little in it. If I wanted to wind people up I'd spend much more time on the Wolves/Coventry/Poole threads. I very much doubt I have looked any of those for a few months, since their teams were confirmed. I wouldn't count a belligerent inside dive as a clean pass.

Is Holder capable of turning a bike at speed around Monmore or Hoddesdon, because Kurtz can't.

stevebrum... Wolves won't win the league next year. End. Of. Debate.

Kasprzak more than goes out of his way to make it awkward for someone to pass him, he is not far from N Pedesen in that respect. And he couldn't pass water, unless he can simply open the throttle and go around the outside with faster equipment.. than EL sorry Premiership reserve. If I was a Leicester fan I would be happier than a pig in poop with that team. Nilsson & Gomolski are a decent top two, They're not on a par with what some other teams have but they're not consuming much in the way of team building points compared to those teams. They should hold their on at home ad spring a few surprises away when they pop out the gate, which both are capable of. Lebedevs on 4.5 is a massive steal I have less concerns than others about his Polish commitments since I'm fairly sure he has signed for an Ekstraliga team rather than Lokomotiv Daugavpils so I very much doubt he will be called upon very often in that league. Auty, Riss & Wolbert should be a very solid middle order, 2 riders who had a relatively poor year last year but have seen all the tracks before and one who is young and improving. As for Ayres, I have seen him on Sky, which is more than can be said for most of next years Premiership #7's

Nope, belligerent awkward fast gating tart, yes.

I don't think the Lions septet is that bad. I would take Ayers over most of the numbpties the other teams have signed at #7. The Lions don't really have a stand out #1. But other than Lindgren, Holder & Doyle neither do any other team, there are few World Class rider in the "Premiership". I think Lebedevs & Wolbert could flourish in this mediocre league, as could Riss. Nilsson, Auty & Gomolski will do their job if they don't improve. I would take that septet over the other Midlands teams.

Not easy to do, is there any Premiership Team that has 7 riders who attained an Elite League average in 2016? Andersen 7.15 Kasprzak 7.91 Kurtz 6.44 Newman 5.52 Klindt 5.42 Holder 4.30 (total estimate PL average *.6) Shanes 3.00 (2016 assessed) 39.74 King 7.22 K Bjerre 5.87 (2015 EL average) L Bjerre 3.98 (total estimate PL average *.6) Garrity 6.00 Kerr 4.80 Bates 4.76 Sarjeant 3.81 36.44 Lindgren 7.21 Masters 7.18 Thorsell 7.06 Howarth 5.13 Clegg 4.15 Skornicki 6.14 (2013 EL average) Greaves 3.00 (2016 assessed) 39.87 Holder 8.95 Lambert 7.08 Batchelor 5.26 Huckenbeck 3.67 Rose 5.00 Porsing 4.99 TBC 3.00 (2016 assessed) 34.95

Err no, Auty will never be a world beater. I'd take him on his average over Howarth on Howarth's average. I'd take him on Howarths average over Howarth on Auty's average. That is all, you can submit more stats to back up your argument, 75 times over. I'd still pick Auty over Howarth. Hands down. No more needs to be said, there is very little between them stat wise, I do not know if Auty is expected to be a heat leader at Leicester since the Lions have not completed their team, Howarth has avoided that status agian in the EL. In the PL Howarth is going to have to step up to heat leader (top 2) status something he has never done before. Which Auty has been accustomed to for several years. Indeed, but Stevebrum is a persistent annoyance. No B'yawn'e please, he was even a chicane gating tart at Wimbourne Road last year.

I'm not going to attempt to guess what any rider will average in either league next year.

I would suggest Wolves won most of their home fixtures much quicker than Leicester did. So very little pressure on Howarth, same at Sheffield. Stead & Garrity were expected to score the big points. I bet Howarth had very few heat 15 outings for Wolves unless the points were already secured and it didn't matter. I am so far from giving a flip about this argument that I cannot be bothered to check, but as the Lions highest averaging away rider I'm sure Auty was called to action in many more heats that mattered than Howarth was, when he would be on the rough end of the result. I'd take the battling Auty, who can't gate over the trapping tart that is Howarth, who seems to have gone backwards since he was at Swindon. As for more appropriate questions, surely MJJ has a team spot in the Elitserien & Ekstraliga... with domestic duties so that signing is a pipe dream?

But stats don't tell you who had the more difficult rides to attain that average. As Stead & Garrity were higher in the averages than Howarth he would not have had any heat 13 outings unless replacing one of them as R/R. Auty being second in the averages at Scunthorpe would have had heat 13 outings. Interesting heat 15 stats too. Auty averaged 8.00 from heat 15 outings, Howarth 5.12 As for the difference in EL stats, the one was riding without pressure in a team near the top of the league, the other was the highest averaging away rider in a team struggling to avoid the wooden spoon.

Indeed David Howe was riding for them for some of those.

Auty has been first or second in the Scunthorpe averages for several seasons, something Howarth has never been at any of his PL clubs.

Gomolski's 2015 average of 5.51 should convert to 7.71

Gomolski 7.71 when I did a load of number crunching as the rules were announced.

Can we get back to the Lions. Rate Kim Nilsson, tidy rider, big test for him as whether he can handle being a number 1 but should do well certainly put him above other 2017 Premiership #1's. Always liked Josh Auty, think he could flourish in this new league as a second string. Two decent signings for Leicester IMO.

Indeed. Belle Vue & Leicester could blow the league away Lets hope so. Of those announced I think there is allot of potential in the Kings Lynn team, whether they can reach that potential I don't know, may depend if Holder is interested in average reduction to return to Poole. The Rye House team is a solid but unspectacular septet. Wolves will be a 3 man team IMO, the Bee's are basically hoping Bjerre is rejuvenated, and avoiding any 0's on the score card. Somerset should be OK at home but their are few heat wins on the road for that team. Think Coventry & Somerset went down the root of least last places for team building purposes. As for 'the special ones' Poole, spent force but useful top end I guess, whether they can do the business when it matters, I have my doubts. I don't rate Kurtz - he was incapable of completing a lap of Monmore in the playoffs, that doesn't bode well. Never seen J Holder, Newman is plucky rider.

I hope Lions & Aces have a few surprises in their hats. Kings Lynn, Rye House & Poole will be in the play-offs from the teams that have announced their 2017 Septet. Kings Lynn to win the play-offs, on current line-ups

Have Leicester or Belle Vue signed a rider yet?

Visited Poznan last year on the Gorzow GP trip. And yes, it is a delight.

Nope, don't have any interest in watching Wobblers, I was brought up on Bruce, Erik & Jan O. Bit of a come down #speedwaysnob

Disclaimer, I don't read much of what is posted if this has been suggested and dismissed before, so be it.... If the worst happens and Brandon is unavailable for the Bee's surely Perry Barr is a better alternative than Leicester. The journey distance/time is fairly similar and the Birmingham Speedway Fans have had no top level racing for several years? It makes a much easier drive for those fans coming from local rivals in Wolves & Belle Vue. I guess those meetings are the bumper crowds? I don't know of Perry Barr's availability. Just putting that out there. Hope you have Speedway at Brandon next year.

The SGP website release... Belle Vue favourites Craig Cook, Max Fricke and brothers Richie and Steven Worrall have been reserved for the Aces and are said to be likely starters at Kirkmanshulme Lane this year. I think you know your top 4.

They both failed to perform away from Monmore when it mattered in the Play-offs. Do I need maths. Poole were pretty tragic but I recall both gifting points to the Pirates in Dorset. Your best performer after the GP's boys i Manchester was a 40+ PK. All hail the Speedway fan that likes tracks being closed and those who like him. I was a Wolves season ticket holder for few years, since it is my local track. Then a season ticket holder at Perry Barr after their reopening for 3 years at until the Brummies had a season of guests and R/R which was killed my interest. I don't like Wolves but I don't like Coventry equally since Wolves were not in existence when I started watching Speedway. And they were then our local rivals. I find watching Speedway at Monmore like watching 100m athletics race when all the sprinters are wearing chains around their ankles, it is just so small. I will break my Monmore exile of about 10 years for PK's farewell. Most entertaining Wolves rider in my life time. I am not diminishing the quality of racing, since there are probably more passes per meeting than at any other track. But watching riders never being able to go flat out I find frustrating. For the record, I hate the Swindon track but have empathy with the team, I don't mind Brandon as a track but haven't been for 3 years. I love the NSS, but only been 4 times as the M6 is a swine. I hate watching Speedway at Lakeside or Eastbourne on Sky. I've been to Poole a few times when holidaying down there, they obviously only make the track properly when Sky are visiting, because it is snooze fest when I have been. Give me a shale packed Owlerton in the EL and I'll go every week, despite the horrific drive. I have not supported Cradley since before the year they moved to Stoke, I have very little interest in watching NL wobblers. Accuse me of being a Speedway snob, I'll accept. You made a mess of your team building this year, you won't win the league. Not a Cradley fans fault, I'm just pointing out your managements failures/cheapness.