Subedei

I believe the point is that Cardiff can't be that difficult to get to if the Poles manage it.

Wroclaw versus Czestochowa Wroclaw..43 9..J Hampel..0,1,2,3,1',1' = 8+2 10..K Bjerre..1,3,1',2,2',0 = 9+2 11..J Crump = DNR 12..T Gapinski..2,1,0 = 3 13..H Andersen..2,3,3,3,3,3 = 17 14..N Klindt..1,2',0,0 = 3+1 15..F Sitera..0,1' = 1+1 16..P Swiderski..0,0,2 = 2 Czestochowa..47 1..G Hancock..2',2',2,3,1' = 10+3 2..S Drabik..3,3,1',0,0 = 7+1 3..S Ulamek..3,1,3,2,2 = 11 4..L Richardson..1,0,0,1' = 2+1 5..R Sullivan..3,2,2,1,3 = 11 6..M Kowalczyk = DNR 7..M Piekarski..3,0 = 3 8..M Szczepaniak..2',0,1',0 = 3+2 Ht 1..Piekarski, Szczepaniak, Klindt, Sitera 1-5 (1-5) Ht 2..Drabik, Hancock, Bjerre, Hampel 1-5 (2-10) Ht 3..Ulamek, Gapinski, Richardson, Swiderski 2-4 (4-14) Ht 4..Sullivan, Andersen, Sitera, Piekarski 3-3 (7-17) Ht 5..Drabik, Hancock, Gapinski, Swiderski 1-5 (8-22) Ht 6..Andersen, Klindt, Ulamek, Richardson 5-1 (13-23) Ht 7..Bjerre, Sullivan, Hampel, Szczepaniak 4-2 (17-25) Ht 8..Andersen, Hancock, Drabik, Klindt 3-3 (20-28) Ht 9..Ulamek, Hampel, Bjerre, Richardson 3-3 (23-31) Ht 10..Andersen, Sullivan, Szczepaniak, Gapinski 3-3 (26-34) Ht 11..Hampel, Ulamek, Richardson, Klindt 3-3 (29-37) Ht 12..Hancock, Bjerre, Hampel, Szczepaniak 3-3 (32-40) Ht 13..Andersen, Bjerre, Sullivan, Drabik 5-1 (37-41) Ht 14..Sullivan, Swiderski, Hampel, Drabik 3-3 (40-44) Ht 15..Andersen, Ulamek, Hancock, Bjerre 3-3 (43-47) Notes: 1..Ht 1 and Szczepaniak replaces Kowalczyk for Czestochowa. 2..Ht 3 and Swiderski replaces Crump for Wroclaw. 3..Ht 5 and Swiderski replaces Crump for Wroclaw. 4..Ht 7 and Szczepaniak replaces Kowalczyk for Czestochowa. 5..Ht 10 and Andersen replaces Crump in a tactical move by Wroclaw. 6..Ht 10 and Szczepaniak replaces Kowalczyk for Czestochowa. 7..Ht 12 and Hampel replaces Gapinski in a tactical move by Wroclaw. 8..Ht 12 and Bjerre replaces Crump in a tactical move by Wroclaw. 9..Ht 12 and Szczepaniak replaces Kowalczyk for Czestochowa. 10..Ht 14 and it's Hampel-Swiderski for Wroclaw and Drabik-Sullivan for Czestochowa. 11..Ht 15 and it's Bjerre-Andersen for Wroclaw and Hancock-Ulamek for Czestochowa. ----------------------- Bonus points calculated per British Elite League. ----------------------- All details from: http://www.sportowefakty.pl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tarnow versus Bydgoszcz Tarnow..47 9..T Gollob..3,3,2,2',3 = 13+1 10..S Burza..0,0,0 = 0 11..J Kolodziej..2,2',2,2',1 = 9+2 12..J Gollob..0,3,0,3,3 = 9 13..M Rempala..1,3,1',2,2' = 9+2 14..K Zielinski..1 = 1 15..P Hlib..0,0,1,2,3,0 = 6 16..M Ciesielski = DNR Bydgoszcz..43 1..P Protasiewicz..2,1,3,1,0 = 7 2..R Sawina..1',0,1 = 2+1 3..R Kosciecha..3,0,0 = 3 4..E Sajfutdinov..1,2,3,1,1 = 8 5..A Jonsson..3,2,3,3,2 = 13 6..M Jedrzejewski..2',1',1 = 4+2 7..K Buczkowski..3,2',1,0,0 = 6+1 8..K Klecha..0 = 0 Ht 1..Buczkowski, Jedrzejewski, Zielinski, Hlib [Fall] 1-5 Ht 2..T Gollob, Protasiewicz, Sawina, Burza 3-3 (4-8) Ht 3..Kosciecha, Kolodziej, Sajfutdinov, J Gollob [Fall] 2-4 (6-12) Ht 4..Jonsson, Buczkowski, Rempala, Hlib 1-5 (7-17) Ht 5..J Gollob, Kolodziej, Protasiewicz, Sawina 5-1 (12-18) Ht 6..Rempala, Sajfutdinov, Hlib, Kosciecha 4-2 (16-20) Ht 7..T Gollob, Jonsson, Jedrzejewski, Burza 3-3 (19-23) Ht 8..Protasiewicz, Hlib, Rempala, Klecha [E/F] 3-3 (22-26) Ht 9..Sajfutdinov, T Gollob, Buczkowski, Burza 2-4 (24-30) Ht 10..Jonsson, Kolodziej, Jedrzejewski, J Gollob 2-4 (26-34) Ht 11..Hlib, T Gollob, Sajfutdinov, Kosciecha 5-1 (31-35) Ht 12..J Gollob, Kolodziej, Protasiewicz, Buczkowski 5-1 (36-36) Ht 13..Jonsson, Rempala, Sawina, Hlib 2-4 (38-40) Ht 14..J Gollob, Rempala, Sajfutdinov, Buczkowski 5-1 (43-41) Ht 15..T Gollob, Jonsson, Kolodziej, Protasiewicz 4-2 (47-43) Notes: 1..Ht 6 and Hlib replaces Zielinski for Tarnow. 2..Ht 8 and Hlib replaces Zielinski for Tarnow. 3..Ht 8 and Klecha replaces Sawina for Bydgoszcz. 4..Ht 9 and Buczkowski replaces Kosciecha for Bydgoszcz. 5..Ht 11 and Hlib replaces Zielinski for Tarnow. 6..Ht 12 and Buczkowski replaces Jedrzejewski for Bydgoszcz. 7..Ht 13 and Hlib replaces Burza for Tarnow. 8..Ht 14 and it's J Gollob-Rempala for Tarnow and Sajfutdinov-Buczkowski for Bydgoszcz. 9..Ht 15 and it's T Gollob-Kolodziej for Tarnow and Protasiewicz-Jonsson for Bydgoszcz. ----------------------- Bonus points calculated per British Elite League. ----------------------- All details from: http://www.przegladzuzlowy.pl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leszno versus Torun Leszno..54 9..D Balinski..3,3,0 = 6 10..R Dobrucki..2',2',1,1,3 = 9+2 11..K Kasprzak..2,2,3,3,1 = 11 12..M Loram..1',1',1,2',2' = 7+4 13..L Adams..3,3,3,3,3 = 15 14..R Kasprzak..1,0 = 1 15..A Kajoch..0,0,0,3 = 3 16..N Kosciuch..2' = 2+1 Torun..36 1..B Pedersen..1,3,2,0,1,0 = 7 2..K Slabon..0,0,1',0 = 1+1 3..A Wisniewski..1 = 1 4..N-K Iversen..0,1',2',0,0 = 3+2 5..W Jagus..1',0,2,2,2 = 7+1 6..D Stachowiak = DNR 7..A Miedzinski..3,2,1,3,0,1 = 10 8..K Zabik..2',3,2 = 7+1 Ht 1..Miedzinski, Zabik, R Kasprzak, Kajoch 1-5 (1-5) Ht 2..Balinski, Dobrucki, Pedersen, Slabon 5-1 (6-6) Ht 3..Zabik, K Kasprzak, Loram, Iversen 3-3 (9-9) Ht 4..Adams, Miedzinski, Jagus, Kajoch 3-3 (12-12) Ht 5..Pedersen, K Kasprzak, Loram, Slabon 3-3 (15-15) Ht 6..Adams, Zabik, Iversen, R Kasprzak 3-3 (18-18) Ht 7..Balinski, Dobrucki, Miedzinski, Jagus [Ex] 5-1 (23-19) Ht 8..Adams, Pedersen, Slabon, Kajoch [E/F] 3-3 (26-22) Ht 9..Miedzinski, Iversen, Dobrucki, Balinski [Ex] 1-5 (27-27) Ht 10..Kasprzak, Jagus, Loram, Miedzinski [Ex] 4-2 (31-29) Ht 11..Kajoch, Kosciuch, Wisniewski, Iversen [Ex] 5-1 (36-30) Ht 12..K Kasprzak, Loram, Miedzinski, Pedersen 5-1 (41-31) Ht 13..Adams, Jagus, Dobrucki, Slabon 4-2 (45-33) Ht 14..Dobrucki, Loram, Pedersen, Iversen 5-1 (50-34) Ht 15..Adams, Jagus, K Kasprzak, Pedersen 4-2 (54-36) Notes: 1..Ht 1 and Zabik replaces Stachowiak for Torun. 2..Ht 3 and Zabik replaces Wisniewski for Torun. 3..Ht 6 and Zabik replaces Wisniewski for Torun. 4..Ht 7 and Miedzinski replaces Stachowiak for Torun. 5..Ht 7 and we've a re-run without Torun's Jagus, who is adjudged to have brought down Leszno's Balinski and is excluded. 6..Ht 8 and Kajoch replaces R Kasprzak for Leszno. 7..Ht 9 and Zabik replaces Wisniewski for Torun. 8..Ht 9 and disaster for Torun as Zabik clashes with Leszno's Balinski, resulting in a trip to the hospital - Leszno's Balinski is excluded from the re-run. 9..Ht 9 and Miedzinski replaces Zabik for Torun. 10..Ht 10 and Miedzinski replaces Stachowiak for Torun. 11..Ht 10 and we've a re-run without Torun's Miedzinski, who takes a tumble and is excluded. 12..Ht 11 and Kajoch replaces R Kasprzak for Leszno. 13..Ht 11 and Kosciuch replaces Balinski for Leszno. 14..Ht 11 and a re-run and more disaster for Torun as Iversen clashes with team mate Wisniewski and is excluded. 15..Ht 12 and Miedzinski replaces Stachowiak for Torun. 16..Ht 14 and it's Dobrucki-Loram for Leszno and Pedersen-Iversen for Torun. 17..Ht 15 and it's K Kasprzak-Adams for Leszno and Pedersen-Jagus for Torun. ----------------------- Bonus points calculated per British Elite League. ----------------------- All details from: http://www.przegladzuzlowy.pl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rzeszow versus Rybnik Rzeszow..51 9..K Baran..1',3,0,3,3 = 10+1 10..D Sledz..2,2',2,0 = 6+1 11..M Kuciapa..2',2,2,2,2' = 10+2 12..T Rempala..3,1',1',1',0 = 6+3 13..T Chrzanowski..3,2,3,2,3 = 13 14..D Stachyra..3,1',0 = 4+1 15..P Miesiac..2',0,0 = 2+1 16..M Les = DNR Rybnik..39 1..C Harris..3,3,1',3,3,1 = 14+1 2..R Chromik..0,0,2,2,3,2 = 9 3..R Gafurov..1,3,1,1',1,0 = 7+1 4..M Mitko..0,0 = 0 5..D Gizatulin..1',0,0,1' = 2+2 6..P Pawlaszczyk..0 = 0 7..W Druchniak..1,2,1,3,0 = 7 8..R Fleger = DNR Ht 1..Stachyra, Miesiac, Druchniak, Pawlaszczyk 5-1 (5-1) Ht 2..Harris, Sledz, Baran, Chromik 3-3 (8-4) Ht 3..Rempala, Kuciapa, Gafurov, Mitko 5-1 (13-5) Ht 4..Chrzanowski, Druchniak, Giztulin, Miesiac 3-3 (16-8) Ht 5..Harris, Kuciapa, Rempala, Chromik 3-3 (19-11) Ht 6..Gafurov, Chrzanowski, Stachyra, Mitko [Ex] 3-3 (22-14) Ht 7..Baran, Sledz, Druchniak, Gizatulin 5-1 (27-15) Ht 8..Chrzanowski, Chromik, Harris, Stachyra 3-3 (30-18) Ht 9..Harris, Sledz, Gafurov, Baran [E/F] 2-4 (32-22) Ht 10..Druchniak, Kuciapa, Rempala, Gizatulin 3-3 (35-25) Ht 11..Baran, Cgromik, Gafurov, Stachyra 3-3 (38-28) Ht 12..Harris, Kuciapa, Rempala, Druchniak 3-3 (41-31) Ht 13..Chromik, Chrzanowski, Gafurov, Sledz [Ex] 2-4 (43-35) Ht 14..Baran, Chromik, Gizatulin, Rempala [E/F] 3-3 (46-38) Ht 15..Chrzanowski, Kuciapa, Harris, Gafurov 5-1 (51-39) Notes: 1..Ht 6 and we've a re-run without Rybnik's Mitko, who gets himself into mischief and is excluded. 2..Ht 7 and Druchniak replaces Pawlaszczyk for Rybnik. 3..Ht 8 and Miesiac replaces Stachyra for Rzeszow. 4..Ht 9 and Harris replaces Mitko in a tactical move by Rybnik. 5..Ht 10 and Druchniak replaces Pawlaszczyk for Rybnik. 6..Ht 11 and Chromik replaces Mitko in a tactical move by Rybnik. 7..Ht 12 and Druchniak replaces Pawlaszczyk for Rybnik. 8..Ht 13 and Gafurov replaces Gizatulin in a tactical move by Rybnik. 9..Ht 13 and we've a re-run without Rzeszow's Sledz, who gets himself into mischief and is excluded. 10..Ht 14 and it's Baran-Rempala for Rzeszow and Chromik-Gizatulin for Rybnik. 11..Ht 15 and it's Kuciapa-Chrzanowski for Rzeszow and Harris-Gafurov for Rybnik. ----------------------- Bonus points calculated per British Elite League. ----------------------- All details from: http://www.sportowefakty.pl

Ask him if he's any strength left for me, while you're at it. My last reserves have just ebbed away.

I think the point being made was that your experiences could hardly be the same since Cardiff doesn't have the Tube.

You weren't equal last - look at all the zero scorers beneath you.

Simon Stead described as "young" and "inexperienced"? I've heard everything now. Stead must be, what, 24-25? That doesn't strike me as being very young.

And Sajfutdinov has just repeated the trick and beaten Tomasz Gollob on his home track of Tarnow. Edit: But Tomasz Gollob returns the compliment in their next meeting. And it looks like a nasty crash in Leszno has resulted in a trip to hospital for former Panther Karol Zabik - here's hoping the young fellow is okay.

I'm not sure Gollob gets such favourable treatment at Bydgoszcz these days. He's no longer a Polonia Bydgoszcz rider. But your point is valid. Polish clubs have virtual, as they say, 24/7 access to their tracks and it's not unusual for clubs to host practice days and practice meetings - all they have to do is provide fuel and medical facilities.

I guess I'm going to have to look back and see what it was. Still, full credit to you for remembering and digging out this thread - I surrender to you. Edit: Okay, send an address and I'll forward a cheque for £25.00.

Congratulations to GLSDiamond on his win. I'm happy enough with sixth place - I thought with young Turner being tight on Gollob's odds I'd not make the top ten. However, thanks to young Turner for his season-long efforts. Now, in the style of the great man, I'm going to consider my continued involvement over the close season.

No he hasn't - it's all a grand delusion. And we will never know whether Nicholls would've qualified if he'd raced at Prague. But history suggests that he wouldn't have. After all, he didn't last season and he didn't the season before. Chances are he won't next season, since it's clear he doesn't really need to bother trying too hard.

Already answered the Andersen point. He didn't pull up any trees tonight. Maybe security of tenure will be his downfall as it was last season. And Bydgoszcz isn't Jagus' home track in Poland, so the comparison you offer isn't worthy.

We'll never know. Anyway, good debating with you, but if you'll forgive me I've had a trying day at work and am off to bed. I shall endeavour to address any further points you post tomorrow.

Truth to tell, I'd completely forgotten about Nicholls' bete noire. I'm not so sure about Andersen. Yes he's had a great season this year, but he's had a point to prove. It will be interesting to see how he gets along next season. Yes, he'll probably be top eight.

I'm not a gambling man. I did, however, say he wouldn't qualify this season. And he hasn't. If BSI take pity on him and fill his begging bowl then so be it. But it'll do him no good. All it will signify is that he doesn't need to bother trying to better himself.

Facing facts, we're basically waiting for the likes of Gollob, Adams and Hancock to shuffle off into retirement for a fundamental change in the GP standings. I wouldn't bet against all three being in the top eight again next season, together with Crump, Nicki P and Jonsson. Hampel might make a push, but I'm not holding my breath and Zagar might consolidate or he might have a "reality check" season and dip out. So, basically, Jagus and everyone else is really fighting for a couple of places.

To be honest, the top eight look pretty much set in stone. I always thought BP was the most likely to fall out of it, with Hampel taking his place. But, as it stands, it was Zagar who really broke through and if TR had taken the GPs anywhere near seriously, Hampel would've struggled and I wouldn't have argued for giving him another chance. Jagus might fail, just as Nicholls continually fails. And if he fails, ship him out and try someone else. BSI probably didn't want him around anyway. They'd probably quite like to have been able to offer Janusz Kolodziej a place. But I guess they can't now.

Too soon? Jagus is already the wrong side of 30. And only a couple of the GPs are raced on small, temporary circuits and a couple are held in Poland. If he has the backing, Jagus could surprise a few.

No, if he'd finished 1-8 he'd deserve to be there. If he finished 1-3 in the qualifiers he'd deserve to be there. If he'd finished 1-8 last season and finished where he did this season I'd argue his inclusion. He's had his chances. And how will we know how anyone else will get along if they never get the chance? Of last season's "nominations" only Hampel and Zagar have pushed into the 1-8.

Why such a downer on Wieslaw Jagus? This is a rider who gave great entertainment tonight. This is a rider who bothered to enter the qualifying rounds and succeeded in making the GPs on merit. This is a rider who in one GP made as many finals as Nicholls has in the last three seasons. This is a rider who deserves his place in the GPs. And that's that. Now tell me, does one GP final in three seasons and failure to qualify for 2005, 2006 and now 2007 justify inclusion? As for the others: Only the terminally insane could possibly argue for Richardson's inclusion in 2007. Iversen was in his first season, didn't pull up any trees and I'd not care to see him in the GPs in 2007. Protasiewicz is much the same as Richardson - only the terminally insane could argue his inclusion. BP qualified last season and deserves another go, but if he fails next season then out he should go. Lindback's another who has had a couple of chances and should probably be out. I wouldn't argue for his inclusion.

Well, with a New Cross avatar, no doubt you can remember when we had Lee, Jessup, PC, Morton and Carter?

None. None are good enough, so none should be there. It does them no favours dishing out charity nominations. In fact, it produces the kind of camplacency that leads to the failure we are currently witnessing. When was the last time a British rider actually appeared in the GPs on merit?

Has British speedway ever sunk so low?

No, I've advocated - since the 2005 when there were no qualifiers - having a system of two strikes and you're out. I've already said I think Lindback would benefit from a year out. BP qualified last season and should have another go. If he fails in 2007, then out with him as well. But Nicholls failed to qualify for 2005, failed to qualify for 2006 and has now failed to qualify for 2007. In a single, solitary GP performance, Wieslaw Jagus has reached as many finals as Nicholls has achieved in THREE seasons. There is no justifiable reason for Nicholls to be included in 2007. None.

Don't remember advocating kicking BP or Lindback out of the GPs. BP qualified last season (unlike Nicholls) and deserves another go. As for Lindback, I actually feel a season out of the GPs would help him along and Lindgren looks an obvious replacement. And then there's PK. He might not ever have achieved much in the GPs, but at least he doesn't regard qualifying as beneath him. I'd have PK back in.