chunky

And? We are just discussing the world champions here, and "ifs" don't really enter into it. As I said though, as good as Carter was, he was never at Lee's level. Of course, the big similarities were that they both had bags of potential, and they both possessed the same self-destructive tendencies.

16 1/2 years on, and does anyone in British speedway still have the last night fun and games? In fact, does anyone still have fun at British speedway?

Wwith Caxton speedway not too far behind...

Perhaps they didn't have any info available at the time? Steve

Yeah, tough to choose between the last two. Havvy had the one year of dominance, but Loram was more consistent.

You mean, give it time to heel? But who will foot the bill?

Can't say recall seeing that, and I have probably seen most Dons' team pics! After Ted Brine came Vic Goodden, I think... Steve

Ah, you've hit the toenail on the head!

Hmmm... Scary thought!

I think I am being far from being "unco-operative"...

Taking things one by one... 1) Lee was better than Carter anyway. 2) He still got a duck egg in the BLRC. 3) The Pride of the East was on his home track. 4) Nielsen was nowhere near the level he was to achieve in later years. When we say that somebody SHOULD have won the world final, it is because they made a made a mistake (Mauger 73), suffered an e/f (Jessup), were injured (Collins 77), or got screwed (Collins 75). Being the best rider on current form is a lot different from being the best rider on the night...

Thing is, if you are THAT good (which PC was), you should be able to ride ALL tracks! That is why I would definitely put Collins and Lee ahead of Tommy Price, and even Freddie Williams. You mentioned 1978 also, Steve, and I deliberately left that one out as PC wasn't actually in the final. It is a great point that he probably would have had three world titles, and quite possibly a fourth, but for idiots, injury, and sabotage. Lee could - and probably should - have had more, but his problems were all self-inflicted. That fact alone keeps him well below PC in the ratings.

As has been mentioned previously Steve, it is easy to attach too much significance to PC's record in the World Cup. Three gold medals, and three maximums, against vastly inferior opponents (Michanek was the only true world class rival in those finals) really shouldn't be unexpected. Apart from Mich, the best riders in those events were his team-mates! Plus, the finals didn't feature Mauger or Olsen. However, you are correct when it comes to the pairs finals. Sidney - don't forget that Collins should also have won in 1975, but for those idiots who took it upon themselves to water the track. When you talk about Lee, there is no way you can say he "should" have won in 83. Muller was the best rider on the night, and it's not like he had a fall or Jessup-style e/f that ruined his chances. Steve

Jesus, John, do you ever stop? I make a small comment to Bob about messaging you, and you turn it into a matter of National importance! I am a member of several speedway groups on Facebook, and over the years I have PM'd many group members regarding certain things. I apologise, but I can't give you specific dates and times when I contacted you, or the particular group. I did NOT say that you made a commented demeaning to "me". You made a demeaning comment in regard to my profession. So, go grab yourself a pen and paper, and write this down so you won't forget it. That's if you don't fall asleep... My name is Steve Brown. I have played darts competitively for 44 years, and for 25 of those years, I was a full-time professional player at the highest level. YES, it is a highly-skilled professional SPORT (despite your opinions), and NO, we don't throw feathered pointy things at a CORK circle. Oh, and you probably weren't able to make the connection, but I am also the owner of the Speedway In Memoriam website. Happy?

Is "unco" really a legitimate prefix? You say I am un-cooperative, yet I have continued to offer detailed explanations of a simple statement I made, just because you couldn't grasp what I was saying. You honestly don't get why I am frustrated at having to explain and re-explain everything to you because you haven't got the faintest idea of what I said, who I am, what past contact we've had, what my name is, or what I do, other than to make a single particularly demeaning comment about my profession? All that, yet YOU are the one who gets butthurt...

A breakthrough? What I said now was no different to what I said earlier! I just had to explain it in different ways until you found one you understood. I don't know if you know, but you are able to check the member lists of Facebook groups...

Then contact Wikipedia. And the FIM while you are at it... The fact is that, when the record books show "world champions", they are still shown as "world champions" regardless of the format. You are the only one who seems to think they are different...

No... It's really not that difficult, John. In regard to things posted on the BSF, we have PM'd each other on the BSF. In regard to things posted on Facebook groups (there are no "forums"), we have PM'd each other on Facebook.

Not "Forum"; we exchanged PM's because of your comments on FB groups.

You do realise that "Grand Prix Winners" are actually "World Champions"? Besides, if you want to talk about British "Grand Prix Winners", you forgot Martin Dugard and Chris Harris. Steve

Or indeed, outside of their home track? To put Price ahead of Collins, Lee, and of course, Woffinden, seems a little strange. Three world championships on tracks around the world vs one on your home track?

Even allowing for the fact that you are unaware of my fame in sporting circles (and there have been enough references to it on the BSF), why would you only have a "vague idea" that my name is Steve? Until recently, I signed EVERY one of my posts on the BSF as "Steve" (recently, it has been about 50%), so you think I could be someone like Dan Bewley??? I have exchanged PM's with you on Facebook - using my real AND FULL name - and you still don't "know"? If you have ever checked my speedway website - which I am sure you have - then you would have further confirmation.

Really? That is the best excuse yet...

Professional enough to think it was made of cork...

I love commenting expertly! Thanks for the tip about the Facebook group. If I need any help with it, could I ask you? Or would it be better for me to ask a real journalist like gustix?