chunky

Ah, you've hit the toenail on the head!

Hmmm... Scary thought!

I think I am being far from being "unco-operative"...

Taking things one by one... 1) Lee was better than Carter anyway. 2) He still got a duck egg in the BLRC. 3) The Pride of the East was on his home track. 4) Nielsen was nowhere near the level he was to achieve in later years. When we say that somebody SHOULD have won the world final, it is because they made a made a mistake (Mauger 73), suffered an e/f (Jessup), were injured (Collins 77), or got screwed (Collins 75). Being the best rider on current form is a lot different from being the best rider on the night...

Thing is, if you are THAT good (which PC was), you should be able to ride ALL tracks! That is why I would definitely put Collins and Lee ahead of Tommy Price, and even Freddie Williams. You mentioned 1978 also, Steve, and I deliberately left that one out as PC wasn't actually in the final. It is a great point that he probably would have had three world titles, and quite possibly a fourth, but for idiots, injury, and sabotage. Lee could - and probably should - have had more, but his problems were all self-inflicted. That fact alone keeps him well below PC in the ratings.

As has been mentioned previously Steve, it is easy to attach too much significance to PC's record in the World Cup. Three gold medals, and three maximums, against vastly inferior opponents (Michanek was the only true world class rival in those finals) really shouldn't be unexpected. Apart from Mich, the best riders in those events were his team-mates! Plus, the finals didn't feature Mauger or Olsen. However, you are correct when it comes to the pairs finals. Sidney - don't forget that Collins should also have won in 1975, but for those idiots who took it upon themselves to water the track. When you talk about Lee, there is no way you can say he "should" have won in 83. Muller was the best rider on the night, and it's not like he had a fall or Jessup-style e/f that ruined his chances. Steve

Jesus, John, do you ever stop? I make a small comment to Bob about messaging you, and you turn it into a matter of National importance! I am a member of several speedway groups on Facebook, and over the years I have PM'd many group members regarding certain things. I apologise, but I can't give you specific dates and times when I contacted you, or the particular group. I did NOT say that you made a commented demeaning to "me". You made a demeaning comment in regard to my profession. So, go grab yourself a pen and paper, and write this down so you won't forget it. That's if you don't fall asleep... My name is Steve Brown. I have played darts competitively for 44 years, and for 25 of those years, I was a full-time professional player at the highest level. YES, it is a highly-skilled professional SPORT (despite your opinions), and NO, we don't throw feathered pointy things at a CORK circle. Oh, and you probably weren't able to make the connection, but I am also the owner of the Speedway In Memoriam website. Happy?

Is "unco" really a legitimate prefix? You say I am un-cooperative, yet I have continued to offer detailed explanations of a simple statement I made, just because you couldn't grasp what I was saying. You honestly don't get why I am frustrated at having to explain and re-explain everything to you because you haven't got the faintest idea of what I said, who I am, what past contact we've had, what my name is, or what I do, other than to make a single particularly demeaning comment about my profession? All that, yet YOU are the one who gets butthurt...

A breakthrough? What I said now was no different to what I said earlier! I just had to explain it in different ways until you found one you understood. I don't know if you know, but you are able to check the member lists of Facebook groups...

Then contact Wikipedia. And the FIM while you are at it... The fact is that, when the record books show "world champions", they are still shown as "world champions" regardless of the format. You are the only one who seems to think they are different...

No... It's really not that difficult, John. In regard to things posted on the BSF, we have PM'd each other on the BSF. In regard to things posted on Facebook groups (there are no "forums"), we have PM'd each other on Facebook.

Not "Forum"; we exchanged PM's because of your comments on FB groups.

You do realise that "Grand Prix Winners" are actually "World Champions"? Besides, if you want to talk about British "Grand Prix Winners", you forgot Martin Dugard and Chris Harris. Steve

Or indeed, outside of their home track? To put Price ahead of Collins, Lee, and of course, Woffinden, seems a little strange. Three world championships on tracks around the world vs one on your home track?

Even allowing for the fact that you are unaware of my fame in sporting circles (and there have been enough references to it on the BSF), why would you only have a "vague idea" that my name is Steve? Until recently, I signed EVERY one of my posts on the BSF as "Steve" (recently, it has been about 50%), so you think I could be someone like Dan Bewley??? I have exchanged PM's with you on Facebook - using my real AND FULL name - and you still don't "know"? If you have ever checked my speedway website - which I am sure you have - then you would have further confirmation.

Really? That is the best excuse yet...

Professional enough to think it was made of cork...

I love commenting expertly! Thanks for the tip about the Facebook group. If I need any help with it, could I ask you? Or would it be better for me to ask a real journalist like gustix?

Seems strange you should say that, because you never refer to me by my real name...

Oh trust me, we have exchanged a bunch of PM's on there too...

Is it okay if I just have it in the background???

You really don't know, Bob? It is John, and you have obviously missed a lot of the nonsense that has gone on here. He has little interest in the modern sport (preferring short-track car racing), and hasn't been to speedway in fourteen years.

Oh well, it looks like a certain someone has gone through and hidden his posts again... So, I have a lot of speedway books, but I don't think I will be adding this one. It has nothing to do with Tai, but I am just not a fan of modern-day writing. As far as non-fiction, I enjoy the quality of the writing as much as I do subject matter, and unless someone can convince me otherwise...

People do think that things like this are morbid, and those of us who retain an interest in stuff like that are crazy, or even damaged. However, you describe it perfectly with the word "compelling", and as horrific as it was, there is something very fascinating and compelling about it. The one place I want to visit before I die is Auschwitz. I know it will be an incredibly emotional and harrowing experience, but it is what I wish to experience. Back to the book, and I agree wholeheartedly about the language used. I am not a prude by any means, but I don't understand the "need" for such language in modern books. Steve

Back to the subject in hand, and I will admit to not having read the book about Tai Woffinden, and neither do I know a great deal about him. I am aware that being born to British parents in Great Britain does make him Australian. However, am I correct in thinking that there has been mention of him considering a career in an alternative form of motorcycle racing on dirt? If so, then either the apparently imminent demise of the British speedway scene, that could lead to a renaming of the BSF to the BFTF. I believe that was an idea raised a while back by gustix?