enotian

Are todays audience really that one dimensional? The trend for crowd levels would suggest not. Successful teams will certainly attract more through the turnstiles but turning up to watch a guaranteed home win sounds a bit dull. Especially if you're poor away from home and not challenging for honours. Certainly if you're losing at home week after week without being competitive that's a massive turn off but I think the public realise that in a sporting contest there has to be winners and losers but it's the jeopardy that makes it interesting. I think most people are satisfied if their team has performed well and they have been entertained. Which should be exactly what you enable if you have fairly prepared tracks and evenly balanced teams. This is even more important if you're looking to attract streaming income from neutrals. As it stands would you pay to see Poole and home to Newcastle? I'm a Diamonds fan but wouldn't pay to see a guaranteed massive home win in a match of little or no entertainment and zero jeopardy. This win at home at all costs attitude is part of the problem. They even got rid of the 2 points for a close home win "because it felt like a loss". No it added jeopardy and excitement right up to the final heat.

The Discovery Sports Statement is clear that they won't be in the series "Discovery Sports Events supports the FIM board’s decision to suspend the Russian and Belarusian motorcycling federations. Therefore, Artem Laguta and Emil Sayfutdinov will not compete during the FIM Speedway GP 2022 season. We hope to see them back in Speedway GP when the international situation will allow it. François Ribeiro, Head of Discovery Sports Events"

Such a shame for the sport, the series and those individuals but it is the correct decision.

True. And I don't know the intellect level your average Russian but I'd hope that if they do feel like they're being 'picked on' they'd then ask themselves why. If the message from the global community is clear and consistent then they can consume that information and decide for themselves if these exclusions are justifiable or not. Difficult when we've all been subjected to media brainwashing over a number of years. I'm reading Animal Farm at the minute. In the current climate it's a fascinating read. If I went to a football match and verbally abused a black player and was banned. If I was a moron I'd think I was being picked on. If I had any sense I'd listen to why I was banned and decide if I think it's justified. If I didn't then I'd be a massive racist and get what I deserve. If I'd realise the error of my ways I'd hopefully change them realising they weren't acceptable to the football community and simply wrong.

Oh dear. It's the regime that is being opposed. Not the Russian people. But how do you send a clear message to the regime that their actions will not be tolerated? Ban Putin from riding in the SGP? Don't allow him personally from accessing products/services from the west? The minimum we can do is send this message to the Russian public, the actions of your leaders are not acceptable and therefore you're no longer welcome as part of the global community. This represents a minor inconvenience to the Russian people compared to what the people of Ukraine are being subjected to but it is only the people of Russia who can plausibly end this regime without the situation literally going nuclear. As per an earlier post it might not work and the Russian public may support Putin and nothing will be resolved. That's their right. But it doesn't change the message. We don't want these regressive, aggressive nations to be part of the global community.

Then so be it. If they do unite and support this tyrannical regime then they should continue to be excluded. A terrible shame when globally we do need to unite on a number of fronts but we have to be clear that the actions of the Putin regime are not acceptable to the rest of society. What they decide to do in Russia is entirely their (or Putin's) choice. The west is far from a perfect utopia but we're all sure that invading another country and murdering innocent civilians isn't okay aren't we? Soo the west isn't right on everything but on this it certainly is.

Must admit I'm not a fan of multiple team building restrictions (I used to enjoy teams with different make ups facing off) BUT there's two good reasons for having them at present: 1. The heat format is biased towards a strong top two. Heats 13 & 15 trump Heat 2. And if you have a strong top 3 (i.e. 3 averaging over 8) there's only three heats you don't have a No1 standard rider in. Take Diamonds vs Pirates this season. King, Lawson and Worrall should go through the card. That's 41 points so they only need 4 points from the other 4 riders for the draw and they're basically guaranteed 3 of those points even if they concede 5-1's in heats 2, 8 and 12/14. Of course nothing is ever guaranteed but you can see that the odds are stacked and it all becomes a bit predictable. 2. If you restrict each team to one rider with an average over 8 you generate more supply than demand and therefore the less wealthy teams can afford to track a genuine No1 standard rider. A quick check of the 2021 CL rolling GSA's and there were 12 riders over 8.00 who are riding in 2022. Would have been easy to spread them about. Some might decide to sit out the CL but even if a team couldn't secure an 8+ No1 at least they wouldn't be facing teams with three of them. The nature of sport has to be fuelled by the desire to win but not at the expense of the product. Otherwise what's the point of winning something nobody is interested in? I guess the answer is Ego.

Yet it's hardly unfathomable is it. At the end of each season you have a fair idea of how many riders will be available next season. Once you know how many teams are in the league you then know if there are enough existing riders to supply those teams or how many new riders need to be found, assume 2.00 pointers. Then you add up all those averages of the required/expected rider pool and divide by the number of teams. Then you have a points limit which helps all teams build equally. Not an exact science but better than having teams fielding teams under the points limit from the outset. The masses will complain that the product is weakened but what's better a league of 10 or a league of 14? Where all the teams have a chance of being equally matched?

Some good opinions and counter opinions presented here which is what the forum is all about. If you consider a sporting event to be a party for people to enjoy then why wouldn't the organiser decide what sort of people to invite to the party? If you held a party at home you wouldn't invite someone who is undesirable and/or would make the other guests uncomfortable because of their view or actions. And it's about time we decide globally who to invite to our parties. Whilst that'll lead to the innocent competitors being excluded the message has to be clear, you're country isn't welcome. And pretending to not be from that country just weakens the message. You're effectively saying nobody wants you at the party but come in a disguise and don't mention the war and you'll be alright. If that message is clear then it's down to the residents of that country if they want to try and invoke change of regime/beliefs. The issue is wider than the invasion of Ukraine isn't it. If we're serious about having a world which is environmentally sustainable, where people of all race, gender and sexuality are treated equally why wouldn't we exclude all those countries who don't support by their actions those views. Look at the Premier League there's various well meant shows of support for anti racism and anti homophobia yet some of the clubs are owned by regimes which have dubious beliefs on these subjects. Can you take any of those messages seriously? It's tokenism. It's like saying we don't want racists at our party, by the way Tommy Robinson paid for the buffet. The message has to be clear.

tenuous but thanks for the info. is that an official FIM event. Or is it akin to Jan Graversen claiming to be a Danish international because he once round for a team called the Vikings? Sounds like the PZM have been quite specific in their requirements to allow him to continue, a bit like the BSPL shoe horning Josh Bates into the Rising Star criteria. My understanding is that there is, understandably, quite an anti Russian atmosphere in Poland atm. Plus those Polish speedway fans can be quite vociferous so it might be for the best if all those Russian national riders are excluded while the conflict continues. Best for all concerned IMO.

Interestingly worded. Didn't Chugunov appear as a reserve for Russia in the SON a couple of years ago. He certainly hasn't ridden for Poland in the SON which is effectively the only official international team contest. Maybe he was representing Poland in the World U21 or SGP?

The context is that a new product is being launched. Which could provide some much needed additional income for the promoters. If you were opening a new shop you'd make sure your best products are on display to make more sales and get repeat business. I'd imagine a few people will be interested in seeing what the standard of the stream and broadcast is before forking out £109 for the season pass. So if that first match is poor (i.e. a non contest) you'd have to ask yourself if it's worth spending £109 if those are the type of fixtures being offered. Why risk that scenario when you've no idea what sort of team Birmingham will field. It's like putting tins without labels on them on display. I agree jeopardy is one of the essential ingredients of sport but I would say that's why so few watch speedway. Home track advantage and mismatched teams means anything can happen but rarely does. Yes there's the odd surprise heat win but in general the results are predictable when one team is clearly stronger than another. My hope is that income from streaming changes the culture within the sport. If you're less reliant on home support for income and it's the standard of the product (excitement, skill, jeopardy) which attracts a larger audience then the on track product improves.

It appears that the FIA are allowing Russian and Belarussian drivers to compete in a neutral capacity. Which should mean they at least finish last. Sorry couldn't resist a gearbox joke. Seriously though it totally misses the point. I'm sure if one of these neutral competitors were to win Putin will be gutted that he can't use the victory as propaganda owing to it being a triumph for neutrals only. I imagine FIM will follow suit.

Roll up roll up Sign up to our brand new TV channel. The first live event is from Berwick who face Birmingham, who haven't actually got a team yet but we're sure they will have and it definitely won't be a massive home win. Whilst these are the type of fixtures you'd expect to feature with limited travelling support you might have thought that the first fixture might have been more prestigious and certainly selected based on the potential to result in a close result. If you don't know one of the teams line up how can you possibly make that judgement? What if Birmingham complete their team with a couple of reserves? Hardly an inspiring choice for the first fixture. Hopefully Birmingham pull together an attractive team and it's a great match but why pick it when there's a chance it could be a whitewash?

the point of any ban is to communicate to the World and Russian public that the actions of the Kremlin are not acceptable. if you then allow those athletes to participate just without a flag and anthem then that message is weak. again i'm short on detail but at the 1980 Moscow Olympics my understanding it Great Britain boycotted the event but athletes competed under the banner of the British Olympic Committee or some such moniker. But I'm certain Wells and Goodheugh were cheered on as Brits even though they weren't officially representing Great Britain. Not sure about flags and anthems when they won but essentially there was no boycott. if the message is to be clear then the ban has to be absolute no matter how unfortunate that is for innocent competitors or how ineffectual it might be. even FIFA seem to have finally tumbled to that.

Thanks. Interesting insight into the reasons for the switch. Surely the guy had earned some credit. However he could have ridden in clogs and he'd still not have been considered a Dutchman.

Agreed. During the cold war there were defections where the defectors no doubt lived in fear even though they were 'safe' in the west. Heavens knows what retaliatory action was taken out on their relatives. So yes a big ask but I don't think we can continue with these quasi bans which allow Russians to compete just without a flag or anthem. Harsh on the majority of their sports persons but an all out ban seems to be the only way to send the message that either state sponsored drugs programmes or illegal invasions are not acceptable to the rest of the World.

Maybe be if athlete's/sports persons were asked to denounce their Russian regime, effectively defecting in old money, then they could compete 'without state'. The message would be clear that they do not support the actions or wish to represent their country of birth but you still feel that they would be considered as representing Russia.

Kind of defeats the object doesn't it. Was it Simon Wigg who rode on a Dutch license to improve his route to World Finals? Nobody would have acknowledged him as a Dutch world champion. it would have been a British win. Important not to consider the individuals in this. Sure it will be harsh on the competitors as I'm sure they're not funded by the Russian government in any way but in these circumstances where there is no other recourse for the actions of Putin isn't it important to send the message to the Russian people that the regime which they live under (allegedly voted for) is rotten and to be ostracised by the global community. And as such isn't welcome to partake in global events. Of course this needs to be wider than just sporting events to make the message strong and clear. But can you see global corporations withdrawing their produce from Russia? Forsaking profits? So it is left to sport to make a stand. Really difficult as Russia are not the only country/regime which can be considered undesirable. I think Afghanistan are still represented in cricket competitions but we'd hardly invite the Taliban to a party. And we're all more than happy for oppressive middle eastern regimes to buy football clubs. So where does it end and who are the arbitrators of what is and isn't acceptable? Whose to say that our western beliefs are more valid than those of rogue states? We certainly don't live in utopia here in the western world. However, I think it's fairly obvious to all concerned that the aggressive invasion of Ukraine, for what appears to be historical/egotistical reasons, is abhorrent and clearly not going to be resolved by politicians or corporations, isn't it important to let the Russian public know that the actions of their leaders are not acceptable by the rest of the World.

Sure. Scott's first wooden spoon was 10 years into his career, finishing bottom with Ipswich in 2003. Seven years later in 2010 another Ipswich last place doubled his collection to two. A move to Swindon the following season (2011) didn't help and a third wooden spoon was added. A return to Coventry didn't work out in 2013 as they finished last. Then following the withdraw of Rye House a short (11 matches) spell with Leicester in 2018 added a fifth wooden spoon to the collection. Finally, Peterborough's last place in 2019 resulted in a sixth wooden spoon to his collection. Nearest contender to steal the unwanted record is Danny King. He's on four last places along with a host of others no longer active in the UK or retired.

thanks. I agree re Harris. In a world where many riders use league racing to supplement their individual aspirations I always get the impression that Harris puts as much into a league fixture as he would any individual contest during his career.

Ahhh a limitation of the data. I'm unable to distinguish between which competitions the appearances relate to, so my assumption was anyone with over 5 appearances would qualify for a medal. Clearly not that simple. I don't really recall the politics of the early 80's but there seems to have been a sea change from a full traditional league programme (1 home, 1 away) into a league plus a significant League Cup programme. Perhaps the beginning of the demise? What I did notice from the data was the number of star names who disappeared, for whatever reason, during the mid 80's. Over a short period of time the product changed significantly.

Chris Harris 5 Coventry 2005 2007 2010 Peterborough 2021 Poole 2018 Chris Holder 5 Poole 2008 2011 2013 2014 2015 Dave Watt 5 Poole 2003 2004 2008 2011 2015 Krzysztof Kasprzak 4 Coventry 2010 Poole 2003 2004 2008 Scott Nicholls 4 Coventry 2005 2007 Ipswich 1998 Peterborough 2021 Peter Karlsson 4 Wolverhampton 1996 2002 2009 2016 Simon Wigg 4 Cradley Heath 1983 Oxford 1985 1986 1989 Bjarne Pedersen 4 Peterborough 2021 Poole 2003 2004 2008 Ivan Mauger 4 Belle Vue 1970 1971 1972 Exeter 1974 Jason Doyle 4 Poole 2011 Swindon 2012 2017 2019 3 Marvyn Cox, Soren Sjosten, Rory Schlein, Frank Shuter, Magnus Zetterstrom, Hans Andersen, Peter Collins, Hans Nielsen, Daniel Davidsson, Andy Grahame, Maciej Janowski, Jan Andersson, Martin Dugard, Tommy Knudsen, Mick Bell, Tommy Roper, Chris Pusey, Joe Screen, Ryan Sullivan, Josh Grajczonek, Darcy Ward, Billy Sanders, Adam Skornicki, Kyle Newman, Tony Rickardsson, Jeremy Doncaster, Ken Eyre, Troy Butler 2 Phil Collins, Mitch Shirra, Alan Wilkinson, Tai Woffinden, Ales Dryml, Mikael Karlsson, Alf Busk, Paul Hurry, Craig Boyce, Bernie Leigh, Dave Hemus, Tomas H Jonasson, Dave Mullett, Martin Ashby, David Bellego, Mike Lanham, David Clarke, Nick Morris, David Howe, Peter Kildemand, Dawid Lampart, Rick Miller, Dean Barker, Alan Grahame, Eric Broadbelt, Tobiasz Musielak, Erik Gundersen, Tony Davey, Frederik Lindgren, Zach Wajtknecht, Gary Guglielmi, Martin Smolinski, Adam Ellis, Mike Hiftle, Andy Hackett, Mike Sampson, Jason Crump, Morten Risager, Jason Lyons, Nicolai Klindt, Jesper Jensen, Per Jonsson, Jiri Stancl, Peter Ravn, John Jorgensen, Przemyslaw Pawlicki, John Louis, Ronnie Correy, Joonas Kylmakorpi, Billy Janniro, Kai Niemi, Steve Johnston, Karol Zabik, Ted Howgego, Kelvin Tatum, Todd Wiltshire, Troy Batchelor, Alan Molyneux, Antonio Lindback, Trevor Jones, Kyle Howarth, Ulrich Ostergaard, Armando Castagna, Lukas Dryml, Leigh Adams, Ole Olsen 1 Paul Starke, Ted Ede, Roger Hill, Filip Sitera, Dave Mortiboys, Andreas Jonsson, Phil Morris, Frank Smith, Simon Cross, Freddie Eriksson, Tony Primmer, Frede Schott, Nigel Flatman, Frederik Jakobsen, Ben Hopwood, Bobby Ott, Richard Hall, Garry Stead, Savalas Clouting, Chris Harrison, Steve Masters, Gary Havelock, Tomasz Gollob, Geoff Curtis, Wayne Broadhurst, Geoff Mudge, Dave Trownson, Gordon Guasco, Oliver Allen, Gordon Kennett, Per Sorensen, Graham Jones, Peter Scully, Greg Hancock, Ray Morton, Greg Kentwell, Richie Worrall, Andrew Appleton, Bent Rasmussen, Bobby Schwartz, Scott Swain, Hynek Stichauer, Stefan Andersson, Ian Clark, Steve Weatherley, Chris Julian, Dennis Andersson, Jack Millen, Tony Clarke, Jacob Thorssell, Eric Boocock, James Grieves, Mikkel B Jensen, James Shanes, Neville Tatum, Jan Andersen, Nigel Boocock, Andy Hines, Norman Hunter, Jan O Pedersen, Andre Compton, Chris Kerr, Paul Whittaker, Andy Phillips, Pete Smith, Chris Louis, Dave Younghusband, Jens Rasmussen, Petri Kokko, Andy Reid, Bruce Cribb, Chris Morton, Reg Trott, Jim McMillan, Richard May, Chris Neath, Bruce Penhall, George Stancl, Ron Mountford, Antonin Kasper, Sam Ermolenko, John Cook, Bert Kingston, John Davis, Shawn Moran, Bradley Wilson-Dean, David Shields, Christian Hefenbrock, Stefan Ekberg, John McNeil, Steve Schofield, Jon Armstrong, Sverre Harrfeldt, Jon Surman, Ted Laessing, Claus Vissing, Dennis Gavros, Jorgen Johansson, Bob Jameson, Josh Auty, Tony Lomas, Antonin Svab, Trevor Geer, Josh Larsen, Eric Boothroyd, Justin Elkins, Carl Stonehewer, Kacper Gomolski, Dave Kennett, Kacper Woryna, Nathan Murray, Col Cottrell, Brian Andersen, Brady Kurtz, Niels-Kristian Iversen, Craig Taylor, Nigel De'Ath, Dag Lovaas, Nigel Sadler, Aaron Summers, Odd Fossengen, Kevin Hawkins, Paul Dugard, Kevin Holden, Paul Smith, Kevin Jolly, Paul Tyrer, Kevin Pitts, Dave Willis, Kevin Smart, Pete Munday, Kevin Wolbert, Peter Carr, Klaus Lausch, Benji Compton, Dakota North, David Bargh, Alun Rossiter, Peter Thompson, Daniel Nermark, Brian Leonard, Lance King, Piotr Swiderski, Larry Ross, Rasmus Jensen, Lars Gunnestad, Ray Wickett, Lars Munkedal, Renat Gafurov, Lee Dicken, Richard Knight, Zbigniew Suchecki, Richard Sweetman, Sam Tesar, Rick France, Bobby McNeill, Robin Aspegren, Linus Sundstrom, Rohan Tungate, Louis Carr, David Norris, Danny Warwick, David Ruud, Arnold Haley, Sam Masters, Ashley Morris, Scott Autrey, Malcolm Simmons, Scott Norman, Marek Cieslak, Seb Ulamek, Marian Jirout, Shawn Venables, Mark Bruton, Simon Stead, Mark Loram, David Steen, Anders Michanek, Stefan Danno, Ashley Pullen, David Walsh, Darren Shand, Steve Reinke, Barry Briggs, Steve Waplington, Matej Ferjan, Stewart McDonald, Mateusz Szczepaniak, Carl Baldwin, Maury Robinson, Dawid Stachyra, Max Clegg, Carl Blackbird, Max Schofield, Tom Ridley, Mel Taylor, Tomas Topinka, Michael Palm Toft, Edward Kennett, Ben Barker, Tony Briggs, Mick Hines, Ellis Perks, Micky Dyer, Tony Olsson, Darren Slater, Bob Kilbry, Mike Broadbank, Emil Grondal, Dave Callington, Ty Proctor, Mike Keen, Vaclav Milik, Daver Gooderham, Wayne Carter, Mike Lewthwaite, Charlie Ermolenko, Brent Collyer, Jordan Palin, Les Owen, Lewis Bridger, Ken McKinlay Some great names in there but some big omissions also. No titles for Hamill, Nicki Pedersen, Kenny Carter, Jessup, Ray Wilson?? The man with the most Silver medals is Chris Morton and the most Wooden Spoons is Scott Nicholls. Six a piece.

And that's all ten!!! Doyle gained one title with Poole and 3 with Swindon. Anyone care to guess who has the most wooden spoons??? There is a rider who has been in teams who finished bottom of the table on six occasions... Similarly someone has six silver medals for finishing runner up.

Excellent shout. Just one left to find. Kasprzak, 4 titles. 3 for Poole and 1 for Coventry. The final rider with 4 titles also won one of them with Poole.