enotian

You have to factor in what heat they were in and maybe what gate they had depending on how much you want to think about it. If you just want to go 3 plus 3 is 6 and that's more than 5 then fair enough. If Madsen was in heat 16 fair enough he might have got to six and hoped others didn't reach six and he'd have finished 11th and scored more GP points. If he was in heat 20 then a win and 6 points might, depending on other results only get him to 14th. The point is that the system doesn't reward every point scored. That's fine everyone knows the rules it just offers different incentives and therefore behaviours. btw did Madsen win his last ride and finish 11th instead of 16th? Not that it proves anything. I guess the only way to find out is by asking the riders and they probably just like winning speedway races so none of it matters at all. For me as a spectator it just feels like there's less riding on those last 4 of the 20 for a those riders that are already in the semi/last chance or not able to make up ground. Maybe they are full gas regardless and it's just the pragmatist in me that thinks they're not but there's no denying that the emphasis of the series is now very much about the final and what happened during qualifying doesn't really matter. That probably works in todays media. You can effectively watch the 10 series deciding races in 30 mins.

Interesting bit of research. of course there's lots of variables like injuries but I reckon a fair few will just not have been able to make it pay and so you get into this ever decreasing circle where a small pool of riders can only make it pay only by taking all of the opportunities to make it pay. i.e. riding in multiple leagues. I reckon you could do a similar analysis on the Polish U21 riders and lots of them will have disappeared from the sport. Probably more to do with how competitive it is over there though, in terms of how many U21 riders they have. I've said on here before if you want to get rid of doubling up in Britain there seems to be a load of Polish kids who are left without Polish clubs each season. Short term fix and probably not possible after Brexit? whilst I don't disagree about British speedway sorting itself out I do think the world governing body need to do more to both protect the existing territories and expand into new territories. ultimately if everything becomes focussed on Poland that's what the sport will become... a Polish sport that nobody else is bothered about. easier said than done of course but I do think FIM need to look at how they assist the current pyramid and develop new ones. for a start stop dragging all sorts of riders all over Europe for all sorts of qualifiers that conflict with domestic leagues and appear to be costly for the riders. look at the cricket franchise system where those competitors often play of a number of franchises because the competitions are staggered to allow it. Have a month long event with 8 franchises with the top international riders supplemented by local riders. Have the UK one in June after the GP's. Have a Scandinavian one in July and a Polish one in August. Take it to the USA and Australia over the winter. Like a travelling circus just without the clowns.... ....hopefully. Then eventually look to expand it into new territories. Spain, Asia, South America. There's loads of kids into motorbikes in those regions. They can't all make it to MotoGP but some could make a decent career as Speedway rider if the infrastructure and opportunity is there. The raw materials are out there but at the minute the flagship SGP series is reliant on the Poles developing talent which is more and more likely to be Polish... ....and so the ever decreasing circle continues. It's basically a business with zero product development.

You often can't jump from 16th to 11th off the back of your 5th ride can you. It's all relative to who has scored what but I'd suggest that the reality is at that stage of the meeting winning your 5th ride potentially moves you up a place or two. So two more points instead of 3. Aside from gate pick there's no reward for finishing 3rd than there is for finishing 10th. If you're on 8 points after 4 heats you could basically sit out your last ride and focus on the last chance. I'm not saying that's what happens but it is absolutely a different dynamic to every point being added to your championship total where every heat was an opportunity to add three points to your championship total. Like I say it ultimately doesn't really matter as no system is perfect. Just preferred the old system.

If ever there was a rider who could win a semi final/last chance from the worst gate it's Zmarzlik. I don't think it disbenefits him at all. I think in all of his title wins he'd won a good few grand finals anyway. I don't think he's ever relied on his heat scores to win a title. As I say I think it was because they didn't like the concept of the winner of the grand final not being the top scorer on the night. Tbf there probably wasn't enough riding on making and winning the final in the old system. Didn't Loram win the title without winning a GP that season? That didn't bother me as he was the best rider over the season which is what the GP series was meant to reward as opposed to the old individual one off world final where a Szczakiel could end up being World Champion the only one day ever where he was the best rider in the world. So we've kind of gone from the jeopardy of the world champ being someone who was the best over 5 rides on one day, to a GP series which rewarded the rider who was consistently the best over the season, to this hybrid where you only have to be the best rider twice per gp across the series.

If you're going to use the qualifying heats to decide who comes 5th and 6th then why not just use the old system? If the current system is about awarding most points based on where you finished in the last three heats then the riders who finish 2nd in the semi's are equal 5th. Just cleaner to award both 12. They might actually have identical qualifying scores anyway. I also think that heats 16 to 20 in particular are a dead rubber for anyone not going to make the top 10. Where in the past winning your last heat meant 3 extra points to your championship total. Now winning your last heat might get you 1 extra championship point. Or if you're not going to make the top two but are going to make the top ten then your last qualifying heat doesn't matter especially if there's no great advantage in gate choice or you're not getting first pick. Doesn't really matter but I just feel that there was something riding on every heat for every rider under the old system.

Wasn't it something to do with the 'them' thinking that it was too confusing when the winner of the final wasn't the top GP points scorer. Especially when compared to other motorsports. I didn't find it confusing and prefer the old system. I don't like how finishing 2nd in one Last Chance/Semi Final scores more GP points than finishing 2nd in the other. Of course the new system does allow the top two heat point scorers to avoid the semi finals. Swings and roundabouts I guess but I feel that there was more competition in each qualifying heat when every point mattered.

You'd hope that the broadcaster would market it. Afterall they're after advertising revenue via viewing figures. That's all the sports channels do. Some of their content is shall we say ordinary but they push it as if it's the best thing since sliced bread. My niece worked for Warner Bros so was involved in TNT marketing campaigns. They know most of their stuff is filler in between football but they still want to retain the viewers so they hype stuff up. The thing with the Extraliga is you can hype it as the best speedway league in the world with all the best riders and best stadiums and that's what you'll get. Sure it would be better if there was more British riders but the fact that two of the best are is a plus. Have a look at the ITV4 schedule on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday. There's loads of random bits of live sport in between reruns of Minder and the like. Copa del Ray Final tonight. That demographic is bound to include people who used to like the speedway and didn't realise it's still going. Gotta be better than having zero TV presence at all.

Enjoyed that tonight despite the lack of passing. As a neutral you could easily sense the tension with the closeness of the scoreline. Great to see a good passionate crowd. I've said before the best advert for British speedway would be to get the rights to the Extraliga and give it to ITV2 or even BBC red button I'm sure British Basketball and Ice Hockey benefit from NBA and NHL being broadcast. Of course you have to have a product that is vaguely similar if you're going to retain any spectators generated....

Isn't Saints the name of the rugby team? If you wanted a link with the Rugby supporters they could have been called after their most famous player!! Northampton Pollocks. Joking aside I thought something like Knights would have worked. Isn't their some links to Royalty in the area? I mean they couldn't have been called the Princesses.

Presumably the idea would be to run the series on Monday or Thursday nights so all the riders would be available. I could see TV being interested more than they are in league racing. Draw decent crowds and it'll look much better on TV. There is an imbalance in the teams so maybe employ a grading system? GP riders 4 grade points, PL heat Leaders grade 3, Under 25's grade 1, Under 21's grade zero and anyone else grade 2. Build a team of 8 to 16 grade points. 4's Kurtz, J Holder, Bewley, Lambert, Doyle, Fricke, Woffinden 3's Lidsey, Brennan, Douglas, Masters, Pickering 2's Z Cook, King, Ellis, Lawson, Harris, B Cook, Howarth, Wright, Tungate, C Cook, C Holder, Morris, Nicholls, Allen 1's Rew, D Thompson, Edwards, Kemp, Rowe, Flint, McDiarmid, Bowes 0's Zischke, Harrison, Loftus, Cairns, Rushen, Scott, Bailey Not an exhaustive list and I might have gotten some ages wrong but you get the idea. GB: Bewley, Lambert, Woffinden, Harris, Thompson, Rowe, Cairns, Rushen vs AUS Kurtz, J Holder, Lidsey, Cook, Rew, McDiarmid, Bowes, Zischke Might be a fair contest and better product. Better chance of covering for injuries as well and less expensive for the promoters but you're still delivering a bona fide international test match. Appreciate Internationals should be unlimited but these days you have to think about the product and nobody is going to want to see another Aussie free for all.

National League first then Newcastle's assets moved as the Diamonds closed down in 1971? I think.

ditto White City

Didn't Kings Lynn run open meetings in prior seasons? So not exactly a brand new venture. Coatbridge you could argue was a track move albeit to another city. But yes White City is it. Although you could argue opening a brand new team/track in London at the height of the sports popularity is a little removed from opening a new track in the top division in 2026 😄 Then of course, Kings Lynn aside, neither Coatbridge, White City or Bristol lasted very long anyway.

Has a brand new team/track ever started in the top flight? Apart from the first ever season of course. Although I suspect even then they'd all ran non league meetings. But let's just say since 1965 onwards. Trying to wrack my brains. I know there's been new tracks for existing clubs (Belle Vue) and resurrected clubs at new and old facilities (Leicester and Oxford) but they all had a existing or previous fan base. Leicester maybe re-started in the 2nd tier anyway. Having scratched my head I've come up with Bristol? Or was there speedway in Bristol before the late 70's? Canny big risk to set up a new track in a town which has zero fan base as far as I am aware and having to start at the highest level... however low that high might be 😄

Well there's little hope of that. Looks like there's 8 team spots to fill across Belle Vue and Ipswich. Make that 15 if Northampton Panther Bees run. With only Kurtz, Wright, Brennan, Lawson, Ellis, King, Klindt, Nicholls, Becker, Iversen, Tungate, Lidsey and Rew likely candidates. I suppose if you can attract another big name (Woffinden?) to return it might be possible but surely you don't set up a new promotion/track (Ipswich/Northampton) and give them no chance to be competitive on track. Waiting a season might be for the best

Don't disagree but there are lots of long intervals where knowing the language helps 😃 What I notice is how much a difference having a large vocal crowd makes. But what is it with this desire to have numerous planned delays? Swedish league is the same. Momentum is lost and this shouldn't be a time for a bovril sport. Those breaks must be difficult for even experienced broadcasters. How do you fill for 15 minutes if you've only seen 5 minutes of speedway, of which there might be 2 or 3 incidents worthy of discussion/replay. I imagine a much better product would be much easier to present. Just a thought, but if BSN was my business I'd reach out to broadcasters or Universities with a view to providing them with an opportunity to train their staff/students. I know Sky have an 'academy' to train presenters, reporters, commentators and technical staff of the future. What greater way to learn than by being given the opportunity to produce a live sporting event. Sure you don't get the finished article but you do get enthusiasm and raw talent trying to improve their skills. You also get on the broadcasters radar, The broadcaster might even pay for the training opportunity or at the least you get access to free resources. Realise speedway is a bit niche but the skills required to take part in a live broadcast are all the same.

Why isn't it a valid comparison? Both Johnson and Garrity have potentially ruined their victims lives. You'd have to ask their victims but that's ultimately the bottom line. You can attempt to change the narrative as much as you like but it won't change what those people had to endure. Like I say if someone is willing to offer the lad an opportunity fair play but lets not try to justify it by positioning him as a victim if he's not offered the chance to resume his speedway career. That's just disrespectful.

You miss the point. We'd all love to earn money doing what we enjoy or are best qualified to do. Given the opportunity anyone would. The point is that doing what he enjoys or is most qualified to do is not his only option to make a useful contribution to society as is being presented by some on here. "If you don't let him ride he'll resort to drug abuse and crime". Utter nonsense. He very well might but that would be on him and not those who decided it wasn't appropriate to employ him. Imagine if we all resorted to drugs and crime if we didn't get what we wanted to do? The vast majority of us just get on with it. Nobody owes this lad a living because he's was a half decent speedway rider, If any promoter is happy enough to accept the negative publicity and risk associated with the lad then that's entirely up to them. If none are willing to do so then he should accept that as a consequence of his own misdemeanours and move on and find another way of being a useful member of society. Perhaps the best comparison is ex footballer Adam Johnson. He made a despicable mistake served his time and has moved on knowing that he'd never be able to do what he was best qualified to do such was the nature of his crime. To say Garrity should be given an opportunity despite the nature of his crime because it's what he does best shows a complete lack of empathy for the victims of his crime and indeed the general public. Who naturally don't like to see people who have behaved despicably being rewarded. I say fair play to any promoter willing to give him a chance. Hopefully he takes it and lives a successful life from this point forward. But let's be clear, any promoter who does so is taking a risk and Garrity should consider himself extremely fortunate to be given an opportunity he is most certainly not entitled to just because he happens to be good at it.

I'm not really fussed to be honest but this rhetoric about it being a choice between speedway or crime is just complete rubbish. This chap will be extremely fortunate to be given another opportunity to earn a living doing something which he presumably he loved, just not as much as his other apparent addiction. But to say this is his only chance to stay 'clean' is tantamount to holding a gun to the collective speedway communities head. a. there are plenty of other occupations this chap could pursue. sure those will be limited by his qualifications and his criminal record by there are plenty of ex-convicts who obtain gainful employment. it might not be preferential but the vast majority of us, criminal or not, don't get the opportunity to do our dream job. b. what happens when he is no longer physically able to be a speedway rider? straight back to a life of crime? Like I say I have no opinion on whether or not this chap should be given an opportunity but lets not attempt to justify this as being anything other than extremely fortunate if the opportunity does arise.

Was always traditionally a Monday night track 😉

The same Saudi's that have invested bugger all in the region. More chance of the Butcher resurrecting it 😊

well argued

shall I put it this way... ...the Premiership only had 6 riders who were too good for the Championship, I know there were more who didn't tide in the championship but the likes of Becker, Brennan, Douglas and Pickering are hardly world stars. Excellent but not in the top 20 riders in the world. If you want a premium product it has to be that. This season at least two of those 6 won't be riding. Personally I don't think you can offer a premium product in this country because the infrastructure, apart from the NSS, isn't conducive to it. In terms of either the tracks or stadia. But if you do need a premium product find a format in which you can at least see a high % of those top 20 riders in the world.

The majority of fans buggered off years ago. Myself included when Newcastle closed. Well just before as it was rubbish, Whilst I'm not a fan of doubling up I don't think it has the detrimental impact in terms of credibility it once did. Look at franchise cricket. Everyone plays for multiple franchises. But it's now accepted because these competitions are differentiated. i.e. the Hundred is distinct from the Big Blast, the County Championship, the IPL the Big Bash etc. The trouble with the Premiership/Championship is that there's hardly any delineation between the two. Premiership is basically the Championship with maybe 6 elite riders added. i.e the Premiership isn't premium, the product isn't premium, apart from maybe at Belle Vue. It's clear that the majority of punters don't fall for it. A genuinely premium product might have worked but the Premiership has fallen between two stools for too long. Either do a premium product or don't.

Probably based on promoters tax returns 😉 I'm joking I'm joking interesting stats. I wonder what happens if TV viewing figures were added?