enotian

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http://www.speedway-spiller.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=23&Itemid=104 Mentioned this more than once before. 2 English 2.00 reserves who ride with/have ridden with Robert in Germany. Could they be persuaded to do 4 home and 4 away in which I think they'd both average over 2.00 enabling the Diamonds to replace them with the likes of Liam Carr once they return to being German

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Your right. I think all the new #7's named thus far average more than Danny in the NL so there's no evidence to suggest he'll outscore any of those just because he's had a full season's "championship" experience. I've mentioned the Spiller boys before, purely because they ride with Lambert in Germany. No idea of their level (Daniel seemed to do well at Eastbourne a couple of seasons ago) or if they plan to ride in the UK but the 2 point options look limited and we might need two of them. Morris' near 5 point average is too high for a reserve in a watered down league. Ideally you'd start with a 3.50 ish rider at #6 like Lewis Rose last season. Doesn't Speedway Star report that the originally intended line up was 0.01 over the 40 point limited so perhaps there's now a smidgen more points wise for the #7?

There'd have to be 0.41 reductions to fit another 2.00 to complete that team. Neither Lindgren or Kus are 0.41 less than Wells so difficult to see how that sort of line up could happen.

Couldn't agree more with you. Theoretically team racing is just a façade whereby the individuals attempt to score the most points they can to boost their earnings. The team they ride for (or are riding for on that particular day) winning as a result of this is just a bi-product of the individuals efforts to earn the maximum they can. I accept there are examples whereby team mates assist each other in terms of set up advice etc but essentially the points money system does not introduce any jeopardy to the racing. If you gate you go because that's how you earn the most money, as I understand it. (notwithstanding appearance guarantees) How about if instead of points money each heat had a monetary prize. For ease of numbers say £600 (some heats could have a higher prize value than others i.e heat 15). If a heat is drawn each team wins £300, if it's a heat win (4-2 or 5-1) the winning team gets £400 and £500 respectively the losers £200 or £100. At the end of the meeting each team shares their total prize fund split on whatever basis has been agreed. So if you're in 2nd place and your team mate was last you'd be incentivised to assist your team mate to take 3rd place as that would add an extra £100 to your teams winnings. It needs some refinement but with the added benefit that the promoters would know exactly how much would be paid out in total each meeting it's worth trialling at least. You could also score matches based on heat wins so a match could end 5-3 (i.e. in a 15 heat match with 7 drawn heats) which appears much closer than say 50-40 to the casual viewer.

Well aware that everyone starts from an old premier league average base but once you have one division stronger than the other the relative averages are not comparable. A new Premiership team which averages 39 is not necessarily worse than a Championship team that averages 48. If the 1.4 multiplier is a valid conversion then the 39 point Premiership team would be the equivalent of a 55 point Championship team. But who knows what that conversion factor should be. All we can say is that:- Premiership team strength = Championship team strength less 2.00 #7 plus Premiership 12.00 #1 (i.e. replace your junior with Chris Holder) So why didn't more teams just move up anyway? Well there wouldn't be enough riders to support a larger league with 50 point team strength it only works because of doubling up, unless you build to 41.00 points (i.e old PL standard). Plus a few old PL teams struggled to afford that standard so it appears the few win over the majority. A few old EL teams don't want to lower to PL standard so they build to 50 points and a few old PL teams cant afford PL standard so they build to 40 points, whilst the majority would be able to operate an old PL standard. Add to that some teams who might be able to afford the uplift to 50 point PL teams would now be in a different league to their local rivals and you end up with a quasi South:North split anyway.

The relative end of season averages are irrelevant. The top Championship team will have a higher team average than the bottom Premiership team because they race in a lower standard division. The 10 point differential is the equivalent of replacing the Championship 2 pointer with a Championship number 1. Any team with that sort of advantage at the start of the Championship would be a cert for the title ergo the bottom Premiership must be a cert for the relegation play off. True a struggling Premiership team might be low on confidence against other Premiership teams but given that many of the team might also ride in the Championship that may be less of an issue. Closer than its ever been but the odds are still stacked. Although if Matt Ford is telling everyone there'll be two more Premiership teams in 2018 the concept of earning your place via promotion play off is somewhat redundant.......

I don't. I support the Diamonds and Sunderland

16 teams of 7 riders each requires 112 riders (Redcar, Scunthorpe & Workington can't afford Premier League standard teams) The list I provided contains 117 riders not including any potential new foreign riders. The top 112 averages of those total 657 points so 7 man teams could be built to 41 points which is equivalent to the 2016 PL given the reduction of 3 pointers to 2 points. It could have been done but doubling up benefits the promoters and riders so its unpopularity with current supporters, the negative perception of new supporters, the fact that it has failed to deliver what it was meant to (more world class British riders) and its detrimental effect on the product is irrelevant. Too hard to put the lid back on Pandora's box.

I would image this is the likely pool of riders we'll be looking at..... Robert Lambert 8.76 Steve Worrall 8.51 Richie Worrall 8.33 Aaron Summers 8.13 Ricky Wells 7.71 Ludvig Lindgren 7.65 Matej Kus 7.55 Rene Bach 7.32 Rory Schlein 7.17 Stuart Robson 7.09 Michael Palm Toft 7.01 Lasse Bjerre 6.65 Kyle Newman 6.31 Tero Aarnio 6.24 Lewis Kerr 6.16 Lewis Rose 5.86 Victor Palovaara 5.80 Ashley Morris 4.83 Liam Carr 4.81 Robert Branford 4.60 Danny Phillips 2.00 S Worrall, L Lindgren, M Kus, L Rose, A Morris & D Phillips leaves only 3.60 for the 7th rider. I'm going to have to get used to seeing both my footie and speedway team in the inferior Championship (unless Bournemouth is a turning point )

Another half way house I guess Poole & Wolves aside none of the Elite League clubs could afford to continue at that level, whilst at Premier League level several clubs struggle to make ends meet, so an amalgamation was inevitable, be it one big league or two smaller leagues but essentially at a Premier League standard as affordable by all participating teams. So having accepted this reality why on earth do they decide to implement a 10 point difference between the two leagues!? Thereby reinstalling the potential that some of the Premiership (Div 1) clubs will find it unaffordable, rendering the promotion/relegation concept redundant, yet more average ambiguity and ensuring the continued use of extensive doubling up. Resulting in essentially a Premier League plus (Premiership) and a Premier League Lite (Championship) offering, when most of the clubs would have been able to sustain a Premier League standard product. Those that can't should seek to join the National League. The Doubling Up free for all has had a negative impact on the sport in the UK. Aside from the inevitable fixture clashes and the concept of being in more than one team diminishing the credibility of the sport it also impacts on the fairness of competition between those who Dup and those who don't. Some riders have twice the earnings of others and inevitably work with a much higher budget. Surely a Premier League standard product for the 16 most "affluent" teams with no doubling up would have been more desirable to the public, even if that meant two or three sgp stars would be excluded. If two leagues were preferable then a smaller 2.50 differential between team building could have worked. I think there are potentially 96 riders from last season excluding sgp riders. So adding a handful of 2.00 pointers and new foreign riders their would be enough for 16 Premier League standard teams. Whilst a total lack of top level competition in this country is regrettable it is not really being offered by the new Premiership either, bar 2 or 3 sgp riders. Another missed opportunity Craig Cook 9.88 Danny King 9.57 Eddie Kennett 9.27 Scott Nicholls 9.23 Brady Kurtz 9.22 Chris Harris 9.21 Rohan Tungate 9.03 Nick Morris 8.97 Josh Grajczonek 8.90 Sam Masters 8.88 Robert Lambert 8.76 Jason Garrity 8.55 Lewis Bridger 8.53 Steve Worrall 8.51 Simon Stead 8.39 Richie Worrall 8.33 Richard Lawson 8.17 Aaron Summers 8.13 Kevin Wolbert 8.09 Ben Barker 7.91 Adam Ellis 7.84 Ricky Wells 7.71 Ludvig Lindgren 7.65 David Bellego 7.63 Justin Sedgmen 7.60 Davey Watt 7.56 Matej Kus 7.55 Nico Covatti 7.49 Thomas Jorgensen 7.45 Troy Batchelor 7.36 Rene Bach 7.32 Ulrich Ostergaard 7.23 Ryan Douglas 7.18 Kyle Howarth 7.18 Rory Schlein 7.17 Jack Holder 7.16 Josh Auty 7.10 Stuart Robson 7.09 Michael Palm Toft 7.01 Kevin Doolan 6.99 Nikolaj Busk Jacobsen 6.98 Dimitri Berge 6.91 Hugh Skidmore 6.84 Erik Riss 6.78 Claus Vissing 6.76 Lasse Bjerre 6.65 Paul Starke 6.62 Charles Wright 6.59 Nickolas Porsing 6.58 Jonas B Andersen 6.32 Kyle Newman 6.31 Kenneth Hansen 6.25 Tero Aarnio 6.24 Theo Pijper 6.16 Lewis Kerr 6.16 Rasmus Jensen 6.14 Carl Wilkinson 6.12 Jake Allen 5.96 Lewis Rose 5.86 James Sarjeant 5.80 Victor Palovaara 5.80 Todd Kurtz 5.76 Matthew Wethers 5.65 Stefan Nielsen 5.53 Nicolai Klindt 5.42 Alex Davies 5.41 Joe Jacobs 5.36 Simon Lambert 5.25 Kasper Lykke Nielsen 5.16 Steve Boxall 5.15 Kai Huckenbeck 5.14 Robert Mear 5.11 Zdenek Simota 5.09 Cameron Heeps 5.07 Adam Roynon 5.05 Josh Bates 5.02 Bradley Wilson Dean 5.02 Daniel Gappmaier 5.00 Mark Riss 5.00 Tobias Busch 5.00 Jye Etheridge 5.00 Fritz Wallner 5.00 Nike Lunna 4.86 Ashley Morris 4.83 Liam Carr 4.81 Robert Branford 4.60 Emil Grondal 4.58 Leigh Lanham 4.34 Fernando Garcia 4.23 Max Clegg 4.04 Dan Bewley 4.00 Ben Morley 3.85 Arthur Sissis 3.79 Tom Perry 3.76 Matt Williamson 3.76 Danny Ayres 3.56 Danyon Hume 2.00 Darryl Richings 2.00 Danny Phillips 2.00 Daniel Halsey 2.00 Tom Stokes 2.00 Ellis Perks 2.00 Lee Payne 2.00 Josh Bailey 2.00 Nathan Greaves 2.00 Zach Wajknecht 2.00 Tom Bacon 2.00 Jack Parkinson-Blackburn 2.00 Jack Smith 2.00 Rob Shuttleworth 2.00 Dan Greenwood 2.00 Luke Chessell 2.00 Jake Knight 2.00 Georgie Wood 2.00 James Shanes 2.00 Connor Coles 2.00 Connor Mountain 2.00

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I think you're not allowed to aggregate more than 1 riders average together and replace up to their combined average if the total team average is over 42.50, which this is.

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Doesn't Robert Lambert ride in the same German team as a couple of young British lads?? As it stands Danny Phillips was the lowest ranked No.7 in the PL (based on his NL average and with the exception of Bewley) so it shouldn't be a surprise that it's been a struggle for him. IMO he looks to have enough ability to become a PL rider but does he have the equipment to match? We've definitely had worse No.7's.

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Except the reality, in speedway, is that won't happen. Firstly, promotion to a division 1 would not result in any significant increase in revenues either from gate receipts or sponsorship/TV money. So how would a promoted team afford the star names required? Secondly, what if, for example, Belle Vue are relegated and Newcastle are promoted. I can't see Matej Zagar turning down the Polish League to ride for Newcastle on a Sunday. Let's be very clear on this, if anyone is expecting this proposal to result in the return of a first division of world class riders and a second division of PL standard they are massively mistaken. This will be two leagues of PL standard teams. Not a problem for me as I enjoy that product I just don't see the point of two leagues of 10 teams. Although I can't really see there being 20 teams operating at PL level next season anyway. I also can't see what happens to the riders who double up at present. Whilst doubling up and guests are universally unpopular with the fans (me included) I wouldn't be happy if I was a double up rider going from circa 60 (plus guest) meetings to potentially 30 meetings with no guest opportunities. Yes riders could reduce their budget to fit but then how do you compete on a continental stage in terms of equipment and track time? To appeal to a wider audience British speedway needs media exposure and what little it gets of that is via SGP and SWC. What happens when Great Britain has no riders of that standard because no British riders can earn enough or get enough track time to become competitive, having never had the opportunity to ride against that standard of rider domestically? It seems obvious to me that the dilution of the Elite league has only resulted in a reduction in spectators. Whilst I'm happy watching PL standard racing a lot of punters only want to see the star names and vote with their feet accordingly. The problem for British speedway is that it never embraced the introduction of the GP series and rise of the Polish leagues. It never adapted to facilitate itself into the top riders schedules and so many of the top riders have dropped it. My point being, mucking around with heat formats, six man teams and promotion/relegation is not going to halt the decline. The really radical thinking required is how can the big names be incorporated to attract a wider audience and how can British riders become more competitive internationally?

Indeed. If the cost of running a meeting is greater than the gate receipts generated then you're better off running less meetings, presuming sponsorship and TV money is more or less fixed for the season. So if promoters have decided that more variety and meetings is the way to go then they must be either expecting gate receipts to increase or the cost of running the meetings are going to de reduced. I think we can all see that it's the later. Loosing 2 riders per meeting will go some way re travelling costs but the proposal is still for 15 heat matches so basically the same points money. So I think it's a fair assumption that the cost reductions will be generated from the removal of high earners. So there'll be no GP riders in either division. It'll basically be two divisions of PL standard teams. Remember the idea behind the proposal is that any team can move up the ladder from National League to become the British Elite league champions. That means a team like Newcastle being in the top league and running home matches on Sunday's. So really only domestically based riders will be involved which is probably the reason for 6 man teams more than anything else. Imagine what Poole team would turn up at Newcastle on a Sunday without guests!? And remember when the current PL started in the mid to late 90's it was 6 man teams which I think was due to rider availability. It was binned off after 1 season I think. And two divisions of say 12 teams doesn't offer variety anyway. The fixture list would have to be twice home and away which appears to be unpopular at present anyway. Promotion/Relegation in a football sense is a draw because so much is at stake financially. At lower levels lots of teams refuse promotion because they'd be worse off having to travel greater distances without their being any greater reward. Take a look at the Northern League. It's in the pyramid but often the winners don't move up. Promotion/Relegation in speedway would be more akin to the Northern league than Premier league. Plus it would only be a matter of time before a relegated team is reinstated because one of the top flight teams has gone bust. British promoters need to decide what they want the product to be. If they want a top level product with GP riders they need to find a format to accommodate them. Most notably a fixed race night and ability to generate higher levels of income to cover the higher costs. (i.e. better tracks, better facilities, better promotion) Or if they want speedway 7 nights a week with home meetings every week they'll need to produce a product which costs less than the limited income it generates. Mucking about with heat formats and introducing promotion/relegation is just tinkering at the seams. My point being that there's no radical thinking here just a re-hash of what has already been tried before.