Grachan

The one Chris Harris used for Poole has suddenly gone up in my estimations.

I don't have a problem with it. I was just correcting your assumption that the rules were changed to allow it. They weren't. They were changed to prevent a rider riding for both clubs in a two-way tie.

The amazing thing about that Joker incident was that they didn't scrap it straight afterwards. I never liked the double points thing, but in the World Cup final it was particularly annoying.

Did you include the one when Ole Olsen waved all the Danes through on the last lap because he could no longer qualify? Was that the 84 Inter Continental?

Although he didn't win a race, so he did come 14th. (The only rider apart from the meeting winner who didn't win a heat).

Well, he does seem to be wearing one in the photos, which is odd as the rest of the team are wearing race jackets. But, surely, even if he got a race suit made that is showing real loyalty to his team - not a lack of it.

Poole didn't have a race suit this year. They wore race jackets.

No need to apologise. It was an interesting point.

It wasn't even that difficult. Just had to switch Matej Zagar and Darcy Ward round in heat 12 to stop Zagar or Madsen also getting 10.

Congratulations to Tai Woffinden - 2013 World Champion under the one-off format without even winning a race. And no engine failures.

I don't have the means to do that as I don't have a blank programme, otherwise I'd genuinely give it a go. Although several people have pointed out that it was possible. It's not so relevant anyway. Nobody is going to go through an entire GP season without winning a race and end up World Champion so it's a bit of a pointless argument - although the idea of whether or not you can win a 20 heat one-off without winning a race is quite intriguing. Also, nobody can win a Grand Prix without winning a race.

I thought we'd already ascertained that, under the old system, you could also go through an entire season without winning a race and still end up World Champion. But it never happened then and won't happen now either.

Can you point to the rule amendment that made Nick Morris a legal guest at King's Lynn. They said they had amended the rules to prevent the guests riding for both sides. This was the rule amendment: Supplementary Regulation - SR1810 A rider may guest for only one team in any leg of a 2-legged competition (home and away) This made no amendment to Nick's legality to ride in the away fixture, and he was over the allowed average. There is no amendment to the 5% being allowed only at home. It's not Poole at fault here. Obviously they were informed they could use Nick Morris in both legs, but there is no rule that seems to allow it. The rule amendment was a bit of a cock-up. No surprise there. The obvious thing would have been to allow Ellis to ride for Poole and Morris to ride for King's Lynn. But, at the of of the day, Poole were given permission to use Nick Morris, so, even it was, technically, apparently illegal they never cheated as they were given permission.

Which means you could also go through the entire qualifying system and win the final without winning a single race. In fact, it could even be to your advantage to get a low score in some qualifying rounds as it helped your draw in the next round - a tactic Ivan Mauger used to use quite often. Of course nobody has won a World Championship in either format without winning a race and are never likely to - but it seems it is mathematically possible in both.

Looks like you answered my question before I asked it!

I wonder if it is possible to win a one-off 20 heat meeting with 5 second places. My guess is you couldn't do it, or would at least need to win a run-off, but it would be interesting to see if it's possible.

Fortunate because the person who would have won failed to win because of an engine failure or whatever. Consequently, it must, therefore, mean that the person who did win only managed to win due to someone else's bad luck. Without that bad luck they wouldn't have won. Pretty self-explanatory really. And the exact same scenario could occur within a Grand Prix. A single engine failure could, for example, prevent a rider reaching a semi-final while their main rival wins an extra race, plus a semi, plus a final. So one engine failure could lose you 9 points instead of just 3. Both systems require the same amount of dedication and skill. I don't get why people try to undermine the Grand Prix system just because they think it's not the same as in the good old days of upright engines and monkey masks. It's just as good a system and gives an equally valid World Champion.

Likewise, you can be fortunate and win a one-off because another rider who should have won made that one mistake that you mention. Apples and oranges.

More than Hans Nielsen had. Hans had one serious rival.

I don't mean want it. I mean WANT it.

Not saying it is beyond anyone else, but I only see it being one of those 3 next year - and I'm no longer convinced that Jason Doyle really wants it badly enough. Likewise Hancock. Lindgren a possible dark horse. Janowski needs to up his game once he realises he is up with the leaders.

I never really felt it with Knudsen the way I did with Nielsen and Gundersen. Good as he was, I will always remember him mainly for falling off when doing a w This year I would agree there were several contenders. Next year I reckon there are 3 main contenders. Zmarzlik - can he make the final step-up that his ability indicates he can? Doyle - how he will now respond to no longer being Champion and how much does he want it now that he has already won it once? Woffinden - obviously.

Really? Above Nielsen? I certainly never saw it that way.

The only rider there that I would possibly consider as a serious contender would be Billy Saunders in 1984 - and that was only before the meeting as the Nielsen/Gundersen era quickly evolved. I was a dedicated Swindon fan, but wouldn't really consider Jimmy Nilsen as one until, maybe, 1990 - and Per Jonsson soon put a stop to that. It really was all about Hans and Erik for those 5 or 6 years.

The way it felt from 84 until the end of the 80's was, effectively, is Hans Nielsen going to win or is he going to mess it up? And, if he messed it up you pretty well knew that Erik Gundersen would win instead, even though Nielsen was obviously the better rider. There were no other serious contenders a few years there.