Grachan

Batch has gone from 8.48 to 7.96 in the last month. As long as he averages 8.00 tonight he'll be fine. They should have gone old-skool tonight. Fireworks, moped races, flour fights, burning Rosco's trousers - that sort of thing.

Typical attitude that will get us nowhere. They have to work together, not see each other as competitors. If those 5 clubs joined with the CL clubs, it would not be a case of anyone moving up or down. That would then be the top league.

Much as I'd like to see the top division remaining strong, a league of 5 team is ridiculous. Given the choice of a strong top league of 5 sides or a big top league of 18, with the current riders spread out, plus a possible bit of space for some new overseas stars, I'd go with the second option every time. I wonder why Somerset won't commit, as they've had a successful season. Has using the World Champion caused financial hardships, I wonder.

Two instead of three? Or two plus NL?

With Kerr and Vissing removed, the mean team average comes to 44.54. And is still over 126. Surely teams can make an effort to bring in riders. Some sides could easily find a replacement for Vaculik/Pieszczek, so they can stay in. The league can fit 7 riders in a side. There are also NL riders around that could be used at reserve. Swindon, for example, could have Anders Rowe. No need to bring in some "6 riders a side" set up that would just put some people off.

I think you are all taking it far too literally. There's bound to be a few mistakes. It's just a quick cut and paste job to see if two leagues are viable to join as one league. I think it shows they are, as it shows that the current riders can be spread out over the teams and the league can be run on a Championship level without dumbing down on the top PL riders. That was my point, and I think that should be the discussion here, not if I accidentally put two averages for a few riders in my haste. But enjoy doing that if that's what you'd rather do. Why not use your expertise to put a few imaginary sides together under a CL format instead? Might be more interesting. See how viable this could be. Guess we won't be needing Birmingham then.

Batch has nicely maneuvered himself below 8.00 this past month, so it will be interesting to see if he stays there.

Thanks. One Josh Bates consigned to history. I kept Robson as it is based on this year's figures. Replaced a Bates with Parkinson-Blackburn on 2.00 in the top 126. That makes the total averages 812.56. Divide by 18 you get 45.14, so still over 45 per 7 riders. As I said, it's not an exact science here. Just a quick check through to see if such a thing as joining the leagues is viable. I believe this proves it is.

That's where it falls down. You are diluting again, and alienating PL sides - forcing riders out.

This is where the whole thing probably falls down, but it's looking a a principle rather than an exact science. The league could run to that strength and not weaken, and dead wood/changes can be replaced. Anyway: Robert Lambert 12.00 Jason Doyle 11.65 Krzysztof Kasprzak 10.97 Sam Masters 10.82 Hans Andersen 10.40 Martin Vaculik 10.40 Max Fricke 10.40 Troy Batchelor 10.35 Jacob Thorssell 9.97 Craig Cook 9.96 Niels Kristian Iversen 9.53 Rohan Tungate 9.49 Kenneth Bjerre 9.31 Brady Kurtz 9.24 Peter Kildemand 9.23 Jack Holder 9.14 Richard Lawson 9.05 Danny King 8.83 Rory Schlein 8.79 Nick Morris 8.76 Ricky Wells 8.76 Tobiasz Musielak 8.59 Steve Worrall 8.55 Erik Riss 8.50 Krystian Pieszczek 8.45 Kacper Woryna 8.35 Josh Auty 8.33 Charles Wright 8.21 Josh Grajczonek 8.20 Adam Ellis 8.20 Scott Nicholls 8.19 Chris Harris 8.15 Michael Palm Toft 8.12 Lasse Bjerre 8.07 Linus Sundstrom 7.97 David Bellego 7.80 Richie Worrall 7.57 Jason Garrity 7.56 Claus Vissing 7.55 Kyle Howarth 7.49 Claus Vissing 7.49 Nicolai Klindt 7.35 Ulrich Ostergaard 7.35 Lewis Kerr 7.31 Edward Kennett 7.25 Thomas Jorgensen 7.25 Lewis Kerr 7.18 Jake Allen 7.12 Josh Bates 7.03 Ben Barker 6.97 Aaron Summers 6.94 Ty Proctor 6.92 Rene Bach 6.88 Stefan Nielsen 6.82 Frederik Jakobsen 6.77 Dan Bewley 6.77 Ludvig Lindgren 6.77 Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.72 Stuart Robson 6.69 Lewis Rose 6.67 Nico Covatti 6.65 Josh Bates 6.54 Victor Palovaara 6.50 Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.50 Kevin Doolan 6.40 Rasmus Jensen 6.40 Lewis Rose 6.25 Tero Aarnio 6.21 Mateusz Szczepaniak 6.20 Cameron Heeps 6.19 Mason Campton 6.09 Ashley Morris 6.04 Kyle Newman 6.02 Jye Etheridge 5.95 David Howe 5.90 Mark Riss 5.79 Todd Kurtz 5.76 Bradley Wilson-Dean 5.74 Nike Lunna 5.73 Ben Morley 5.69 Daniel Gappmaier 5.68 Matej Kus 5.68 Paul Starke 5.66 Jonas B Andersen 5.49 Josh Pickering 5.41 Zach Wajtknecht 5.31 Theo Pijper 5.25 Matthew Wethers 5.24 Jonas Jeppesen 5.20 Kasper Andersen 5.20 John Lindman 5.20 Michael Hartel 5.20 Damien Drodz 5.20 Tobias Busch 5.07 Dimitri Berge 5.05 Jan Graversen 4.93 Joel Andersen 4.89 James Shanes 4.88 Emil Grondal 4.77 Ellis Perks 4.70 Mikkel B Andersen 4.69 Tom Bacon 4.52 Fernando Garcia 4.47 Simon Lambert 4.43 James Sarjeant 4.42 Carl Wilkinson 4.38 Max Clegg 4.23 Nathan Greaves 4.20 Matt Williamson 4.14 Broc Nicol 4.00 Gino Manzares 4.00 Jordan Stewart 4.00 Max Ruml 4.00 William Lawson 4.00 James Sarjeant 3.90 Danyon Hume 3.84 Connor Mountain 3.62 Jack Smith 3.07 Mitchell Davey 3.00 Alfie Bowtell 2.34 Georgie Wood 2.32 Jack Thomas 2.31 Danny Phillips 2.00 David Wallinger 2.00 Drew Kemp 2.00 Jack Parkinson-Blackburn 2.00 Joe Lawlor 2.00 Kyle Bickley 2.00

That is not really an option at the moment. Personally, I would love to see those riders back, but it ain't gonna happen right now. The thing is, if this was done we'd lose no more current riders due to the averages forcing them out, but we'd also have teams that are sustainable for the current CL teams. Sure, it would be nice to strengthen, but the main concern for next year is that the sport is weakened further. This doesn't mean having to lose any of the current riders, at least, and also makes for an interesting larger league.

Why would they not want it? Teams are pretty much at Championship level. Keeps them happy. No PL riders are forced out the league by weakening. Keeps the PL happy. Everyone is happy. Happy happy happy. The only issue really might be the points limit is a bit high for some people in the CL? It could, perhaps, go down to 42.5 to keep CL teams happy? That's a 2.5 drop for each team. Total is 2.5 x 18 = 45. One more team. Fine. Get Birmingham in. One more team. Points limit 42.5. Everyone is happy now. Woo-hooo. I've sorted out the league for next year.

Yeah. That's what I did. I re-organised it. Any better ideas welcome.

Sorry mister pedantic. A merge of the PL and CL.

Ok, you could say I have too much time on my hands, but I put a spreadsheet together of all the riders who rode in the Pl or CL this year. Converted the averages of riders with no CL average using the 1.3 conversion, and produced a list of averages at CL level. There were 129 riders between 18 teams. That is over 7 per team. So I took the top 126 riders. Worked out their total average - which was 817.60, then divided that by 18, which came to 45.44. So, that's all there is to it. Next year should be: One big league Averages at CL level. Points limit 45 (dropping to 42.50 on first set of Green Sheets) Conversion rate 1.3 Maximum average of 12 (this only affects Robert Lambert, who came to 12.34). Sorted. The only issue is with GP riders. What would they come in on? The same as now, I guess.

I think you need to clarify your argument. Are you putting Martin Ashby in a league the strength of today's league, with hardly any of the World's top riders involved, and which was set up using second division averages? Are you using the same teams as in the 1970's, but using today's race format? Are you having 7 teams using the top 49 riders in the World? It depends what comparison you are using. If you are putting a rider the standard of Martin Ashby in a league of today's GB standard, then he is a number one. If you are putting a rider of his standard in a league of 7 teams using the best 49 riders in the World then he'd be a second or third heatleader, or possibly even a second string. It depends on which scenario you are using.

Well, I guess it depends on what level you are setting the riders in the league. With a league of the strength of the league today he'd be a number one. Of course, if you are just taking the top riders in the World and fitting them into 7 teams from the top downwards, then maybe he would be a 7 point rider. But that is not today's format. I would say that the only person better than Martin Ashby was who is in the league at the moment is Jason Doyle. And riders nowadays do, I believe, ride conservatively sometimes to ensure their averages stay lower.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately trying to be provocative, but no way would Martin Ashby be a 7.5 man. He was out and out number one for many years. He'd easily get above 8 using the current format, which is where number ones are mainly. Whatever the format, he'd still have been the number one.

Championship averages, Championship points limit. Riders who only have a Premier average given a converted average. Not what I'd like to see, particularly, but that is Championship level. My preference would be a 1.25 (0.8) conversion rate, which takes the top PL rider up to about 12. And make a 12.00 average cap.

If Tai win's 3 titles he will certainly be a contender for best British rider, but I think Peter Craven would still have a pretty good case. I never saw Craven ride, but he didn't just win 2 World titles, but he won them in the era of Fundin and Briggs - and may well have gone on to win more for all we know, had he not lost his life. I'd say it's between those two though, with Collins and Lee close behind. Lee at his best, however, is probably the best rider I ever saw. But he lacked the consistency and longevity.

If they can't afford them then don't sign them. Join the leagues together, spread the riders out evenly, and see what level we come to. Then leave it at that. If Somerset want Jason Doyle next year then why shouldn't they? It doesn't affect other teams other than having a World Class rider visit during the season, surely? How does it go against, say, Redcar, if Somerset have Jason Doyle if the teams are still built to the same points limit? So, are you saying that even the current Championship level is too high for one big league? If it is, the sport is pretty much done.

If they can get enough teams into the top flight, I'm sure they could run the league at a much lower level - perhaps even the level of the current championship - without actually forcing any riders out an effectively downgrading. With doubling up/down at the level it is currently, surely they can get enough teams at the level and still keep the likes of Jason Doyle riding in the league with a sensible conversion rate. Someone needs to work out how the teams and riders we currently have can be put together and how that would all work out. It just needs someone with a bit of time on their hands to make the effort to do it. The sport doesn't need to downgrade any more, and could probably run a big league without having to do so.

Yes. I actually spotted the bass player once, stood at the back of the home straight stand during a Swindon v Coventry match.

I don't know how they chose the guests, but it was stated earlier in the day that they were having problems finding anyone who was available.

That description of the crash certainly fits more with what was in the Swindon report - which also said that it was Musielak and Lambert involved. It's funny how some King's Lynn fans now have such a blind hatred of Troy Bachelor that they will blame him for anything. I know a bit of panto booing can be fun, but I bet this wasn't that but was genuinely serious. I've seen it at Swindon with Rory Schlein, where the crowd would boo him. It seemed good fun until you look at the genuine hated and anger on some of the fans' faces. And they probably didn't even know why they were booing him.