uk_martin

In Poland for the big one on Monday. Sector 58 tickets (next to the Ultras) so it's going to be fun. Fingers crossed for a great evening's entertainment and a Stal win if only to cause some tremmors lol

Ipswich need him in Glasgow.

Got to applaud this move.

Richard Hall = 31. Arthur Ssissis = 21 - I shall say no more as it is pretty much off topic. OK, so they now have two tracks. Apart from the aborted GP at Riga I wasn't aware of anything happening there. OK, so does Britain take credit for Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Hans Nielsen, and uncle Tom Cobley and all too? God dammit, we're good aren't we?

Numbers of riders starting off in the sport is one thing but what when they do make a start, then what? There is a whole National League and some development leagues full of riders who have made the start. Lots of them....now compare that with the slack handful that ride in the USA and the dozen lads in Latvia who ride, and you will see that numbers in Britain isn't the biggest problem. What I find incomprehensible is that out of the dozen Latvians, on the one track in the country, 5 of them made it to the Speedway World Cup, by means of qualification, not seeding, and shamed the British team in the final. There aren't that many riders in the USA, and their tracks are even harder to stumble across, and are tiny compared to any in Europe, and always have been, but their strike rate of producing world class stars has been amazing. So what is going wrong with what we do here that strangles the potential of the kids who do make a start in the sport? How come we can't turn 50% of the riders who start in the sport here into SWC-level performers like Latvia do? Why can't we produce a string of world champions and stars like the USA have, again with less resources than we have here already?

Feel free to put together a full business case for how speedway at grass roots level will be good for an all-inclusive community, how it will help health and well-being, how it will promote social and cultural understanding, and of course dont forget to show how it will help celebrate diversity and promote equality, and all the other "politicaly correct" things that politicians and their civil servants look for in a plan, and then head straight over to the Sports Council with it. Now that we're Brexiting, the Government will soon have £350m extra a week to spend on stuff (it said so on the side of a bus) so how could you possibly fail?

Ah, but is the government funding directed at the Professional game, or at the grass roots amateur incarnations? Ask the Sports Council to give some millions to Arsenal and I suspect you'll get a different response to asking them for money to fund a project for community football in a run-down inner-city area. Same will go for any other sport I suspect. Why should the BSPA receive money from the FIM/BSI beyond the expenses for the riders and their crews? Does any other National governing body get anything? In fact your comment about the Aussies and the fact that the Russian riders had to pay their own way seems to answer that one adequately. Many FIM competitions that BSI are not involved in, such as the u21 championships require entrance fees, special liceses that have to be paid for and special insurance that the riders need to pay for. Just be grateful that the SWC sees money going the other way, presumably because of what BSI generate in TV revenues etc

Damned good points...just how do Australia produce so many good riders on a consistent basis without even any kind of league structure? How did the USA manage to produce the likes of Scott Autrey, Bruce Penhall, Bobby Schwartz, Lance King, Dennis Cigarless, the Moran brothers, etc etc, with barely more than a single 150m track at Costa Mesa to their name? How was it that a couple of years ago in Czech Republic, a team of kids from the suburbs of Daugavpils were able to wipe the floor with the best that Britain could offer? it ain't all about building "Polishesque" tracks. There's more to it than that. Workington and Berwick are bigger than many Polish tracks. Sheffield's track is bigger than Gorzow. Kings Lynn is hardly small either. So having a big track is nothing new in Britain. It's what the riders do on them that matters. Anyway, at least Tai Woofinden speaks more eloquently than Andy Monotone Murray.

My understanding is that the BSPA get nothing from the FIM or their promoters of World or European Championship events. Nor should they. My understanding is that the heirarchy goes along the lines of FIM -> ACU -> SCB. What the SCB get from the FIM / BSI, I have no idea. The BSPA's job is simply to run the leagues. The SCB is the "parent" of the BSPA, although there are several personalities who serve on both management committees, which is where roles / responsibilities get confused. The BSPA come in for the criticism because they are the public face of the league system, but I think that the Team GB matters are the responsibility of the SCB, as the governing body of speedway in Great Britain, although I may be wrong on this. Whilst the responsibility of Team GB may lie with the SCB, the problem, as I see it, arises out of how the BSPA reacts to "their" (team's) riders being unavailable for EL / PL / NL competitions. When the BSPA throw a strop and decide that anyone (Scott Nicholls as an example) wants to ride in a non-league event (e.g. the SEC) that this constitues "withholding of services" for which the only "facility" that a team can have is a NL guest, and the rider himself can be suspended, then it makes it almost impossible for riders to escape the control of the promoters, which in turn cuts down on their chances to take part in the kind of meetings that allow a rider to develop to their full potential. Also, by allowing doubling-up, it makes staying in Britain too comfortable (do Craig Cook & Ben Barker spring to mind?) reducing a riders incentive to expand their talents in Sweden or Poland.

And quite an interesting follow-on on Facebook I thought it best to start a new thread about this as where a conversation had started seems a little inappropriate now, and the gravity of this matter deserves a thread of it's own I think. So, interesting comments. It'll be even more interesting to see what comes of it all.

And the real-life difference between that an Polish clubs paying rent on their facilities is...??? As I said before...long range vision restricted to the far end of their own car parks. So what is the role these days for Terry Russell and SlowSpeed International Ltd? I thought that they were the contracted agency responsible for generating collective sponsorship deals and national publicity. He creams off 40% of the Sky money and does rugger ball for the rest of the year. Why is Dick Dastardley doing the barking when he's got a dog there that should be doing it for him... And talking of Dick Dastardley, where's Mutley these days? Did he get hacked off with the BSPA too by any chance? And good on ya for doing that!

I don't know about every stadium's ownership. Some like Gorzow are owned by local authorities, others like Torun are privately owned. There seem to be plenty of businesses prepared to invest in speedway in Poland in sponsorship of one type or another. Just look at the advertising boards in the centre greens. One stadium in Poland will have more advertisers on show than all the stadiums in the UK put together. That means money is coming in. These companies pay for sponsorship becaust they think there will be a return from the audience who see their adverts. And the people are there because the product is good, well presented and an afternoon or an evening at the races is good value entertainment. Can I imagine a local authority in Britain investing in stadiums? Yes. London invested in a whole range of them for the Olympics. Birmingham has invested in the Alexander Stadium for athletics. Manchester...well, you've said yourself. Do local authorities invest in speedway...well again maybe you should look at Manchester. I don't know the full story, but I'm sure that Manchester council lent at least a helping hand to get the NSS built. Is taking 3 years to "make a start" really something to be proud of? And what's the BSPA's involvement with it? As far as I can see, it's a private company offering a college course in the style of one of these "modern apprenticeships" that the Government are more responsible for than the BSPA. OK, so the BSPA got Poultec to run these courses. A couple of weeks worth of negotiating and then let Poultec crack on with it...what else have the BSPA done in the last 3 years?

There seems to be an assumption that the fairy godmother flew over Poland, waved her magic wand and all was well with speedway in that country all of a sudden. It needs to be remembered that in the 1970's and 1980's when the British League was the best in the world, and we here had all the advantages, Poland was still in the hands of the Communists. "Austerity" as we think we know it in the UK today was positive oppulence compared to what the Poles had (or didn't have) at that time. Polish stadiums back then were much like Buxton or Somerset. What you see today in Gorzow or Torun are recent developments, investments in the future and rewards for recent efforts. Britain let slip it's domination and advantage, and has never recovered since. Poland has gone from strength to strength, and we need to swallow some pride and learn some lessons from them. What the Poles have today and where they are today is as a result of investment, belief, direction and dedication. The sport has been built up from poverty to where it is today. It's been a rocky ride for some teams over there and not all the flowers are roses, but what they have today, they have worked for and deserved. It's an attractive product, well presented, and it's no surprise that it is well received by the public. But of course you can't tell that to some of the traditional "we're British so we know best" types, can you? And there is the problem...haven't we been saying that for SO long? Weren't we saying the same about Ben Barker, 6 or 7 years ago? How come it's said about how difficult it is for the likes of Craig Cook to get a ride in Poland when young Aussies like Max Fricke and Justin Sedgmen don't have any problems at all? Maybe Cook is now too long in the tooth to be regarded as one of our "up and coming riders" and maybe he is at his peak now, but it was refreshing to see Adam Ellis and Jack Smith riding in Germany (at their own expense) as well as Robert Lambert, on one of my recent trips out there. Maybe there is more hope for the next crop of youngsters (the Bewley's, Spillers, Smith's, Ellis's etc) than there is for the current crop. Fingers crossed.

Not sure that the word "league" is part of Tai's plans. I think what Tai wants is for British riders to be developed to higher standards than they are currently achieving. I don't think he wan't to be the sole Brit in the SGP series and I think he'd like Team GB to win a SWC...to do that you need a squad of riders of world standard. I suspect that this is where he is in conflict with the BSPA. Tai sees the bigger picture and your average British speedway promoter can't see beyond their own stadium car park. The Poles have managed to run a successful league and have a SWC team full of former World u21 Champions so developing the riding talent and running a league are not mutually exclusive. I think that what Tai wants is for the BSPA to sort their act out and to try to emulate what he sees is working elsewhere and for GB to be a force on the world stage again.

Pleased with the performance of the GB team. They did really well and probably surpassed everyone's expectations. They can be proud of what they have achieved. And as has been said, the OP's original question has now been answered. NOT pleased with Jason Doyle's pre-meeting comments - I hope that GB have made him eat his words. Disappointed to hear Tai's comments in his post-match interview that the BSPA haven't delivered on their promises made 3 years ago in relation to an agreed 5-year plan. As Tai said, let's hope that this performance is the "kick up their bum" that the BSPA need.

Well if that's the case then things look bleaker still.

Would the stadium owners be concerned if speedway could not be run there and the rental income from Swindon Speedway not be earned?

If there is monitoring, that means that there will be record keeping. That means that there will be comparisons made between the numbers of people using sustainable transport and a target figure. The general mood amongst people here indicates that there will be a poor take-up of walking / cycling / public transport...so on the assumption that the target is not met, then what? Will the stadium have to close at some point 12-24 months after it is built because the "Green Agenda" is not being fulfilled? So who, with that kind of uncertainty is going to invest in the cost of building a stadium in the first place?

And 6 hours later..."move along please, nothing to see here" If it hadn't have been for curfewgate at Kent, the other week, there wouldn't have been a thing said about the last few Brummies meetings at all. Not much interest going on.

What time is the curfew? First 4 races have taken over 12 minutes per race...don't the sport's authorites ever learn?

So where is it on the NL News Page? http://www.speedwaygb.co/nlnews Surely the point of publishing an article is to make it easy to find so that people can read it? You don't need a chip on the shoulder to state the bleeding obvious.

No mention of anything controversial on the BSPA web site. In fact having taken a dogs age to put anything on their web site at all it seems that they have copied & pasted straight off the Brummies web site. I'm sure that a fully investigated analysis of all that went on will feature in next week's Speedway Star though, won't it?

I noticed this gem on the BSPA web site - http://www.speedwaygb.co/sponsoredmigrantspolicy At the moment it lists the "Eligibility for endorsement" for non-EU "migrants" on the basis that Poles, Swedes, Danes etc in the EU don't need to fulfill any of these criteria. I can't wait to see what this list looks like in 2 or so years time when EU "Migrants" will come under these rules and regulations too. Hold your breath folks. The BSPA are in charge. Who could possibly "wangle the system"? What could possibly go wrong?

Yes there will always be casual supporters, but most sports like to arrange their premier event to be held at a FULL stadium, not a half-full one. About time speedway sorted out its aspirations. The problem is that many of us have still got that 1970's soundbyte in our heads that speedway is the second biggest spectator sport in the country. It might have been when we first heard it as kids but it no longers applies today, and we need to get realistic. The SGP needs to be in a stadium that can be filled, and if that means downsizing to a smaller venue then so be it.

The capacity is 74,500 - according to a 2-second Google search. So what do you reckon that the attendance was then? 43,000? 44,000? Now deduct the probable 15,000 Poles & assorted tourists in the crowd, and you are left with less than 30,000 British fans in there...or, in average terms, less than 1000 fans for each track in the country. Bearing in mind that some teams struggle to get 200 fans onto the terraces week in week out, that average figure of 1000 is remarkable. It's almost like every fan in the country had to be there to make up those numbers. And still, the stadium that sells out every time the Welsh rugby team plays there can't get to look more than half full for Speedway's major event of the year. And people wonder why the BBC etc can't be bothered to mention speedway in it's main national news coverage.